Talk:List of loanwords in Malay
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This whole list is a mess, needs reliable citations edit
I've taken a look at the list and it's a fair mess. While many of the word sources are credible, they would still need citations. Some of the origins claimed for the words are completely untenable and seem to be based on false cognates, false/folk etymology, or just mere speculation on the part of the editors.
Some examples include claiming a Portuguese origin for the word "pau" meaning steamed buns, or the word "pisau" allegedly being sourced from Mandarin; this is completely untrue. If this list needs to be taken seriously, each entry must include a reliable citation from trustworthy sources.
I will try and work on this sporadically, removing any etymological claims that I feel to be dubious, and inserting citations where I can find them. Help from the community (in particular linguists) would be very much appreciated. Yekshemesh (talk) 08:44, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
Untitled edit
I challenge the origin of the loan word 'ananas' for Malay nenas (english pineapple). The word ananas appears to be largely used in the world by more than a handful of languages include: Greek, French, Arabic, Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, German, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russion, Swedish, Spanish. Therefore, it should not be considered fair to claim the word originated from Portuguese or Arabic. Must note that in Brazilian Portuguese, pineapples are called abacaxi.
Also, the word 'almari' is a variation of 'armoire' which is french later borrowed by english, but other languages also have a variation of this word. In greek, the equivalent is 'ermari'. It is more likely that the word is loaned by Portuguese than Tamil since their influence on Malay language predates Tamil.65.204.193.30 (talk) 14:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)kl§
In portuguese, cupboard is armário. And Mango is Manga (much closer to the malay one).
Besides, your claim is wrong. In European Portuguese, abacaxi and ananás are two *different* (tough very similar) fruits, or rather two qualities of pineapple. The word in Spanish (ananas) was borrowed from Portuguese as probably were the words for all the other mentioned languages. The fruit is native from Brazil, so it must have been brought to Europe by the Portuguese (and not by the Swedish or Italians or Polish or whatever...). Moreover, the influence on Malay by the Portuguese was in the XVI century, at which time there was no European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.180.84 (talk) 13:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
merge edit
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The List of loan words in Indonesian that are common to both standards should be merged here, with only specifically Indonesian terms remaining. — kwami (talk) 01:26, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
- I do not agree, despite having much similarities, some of Indonesian and Malay words are quite different in pronounciation or writing, moreover Indonesian tends to loan Dutch or Latin words, that is often absent in Malay (Gunkarta (talk) 12:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)).
- I disagree also. It would make it harder to read and to maintain. You'd also need a separate page or section for loanwords in Malay that aren't in Indonesian (e.g. Ahli with the meaning community - it means expert in Indonesian; and Baldi). Perhaps those loanwords which are in both languages could be marked on each page (e.g. with a reference, of the form <ref name="Also Malay" />. --Chriswaterguy talk 11:22, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- Disagree - merging means you're addressing the content in this article in the other article to be merged, notwithstanding to have specifically Indonesian terms remaining when the redirect is of Malay vocabulary is absurd. See also Differences between Malaysian and Indonesian. — Blue。 08:10, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm also disagree. Indonesia is the largest archipelago in the world and has hundreds of tribes and languages. Please see Lonely Planet or Fromm's. The largest local language use in Indonesia is Javanese language (in Java Islands only there are many languages and more many dialects, Java Islands is only about 7 percent area of Indonesia), but in 1928 some people vowed to use Indonesian language which adopted from Melayu Pasar (Market Malay language) commonly used in many ports in Indonesia and not use Javanese language to avoid jealous from other languages. Today, Modern Malay language (not Market Malay languange) is used in some of areas in Indonesia, mainly areas which facing up to Malacca Strait, but after 8 decades the Indonesian language certainly different with Modern Malay language and more different with Market Malay language. We are categorized Modern Malay language as local language, same with Javanese language as local language too.Gsarwa (talk) 06:27, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
- Bahasa Melayu used as the basis for bahasa Indonesia is Bahasa Melayu Tinggi (High Malay) and definitely not the common Malay. Bahasa Melayu Tinggi is used as Standard Indonesian, regardless of what individual opinion is. Adding some vocabulary do not change the grammar and structure of the language, and definately not the language itself. Yosri (talk) 00:25, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Benua is not a loanword edit
The Malay word "benua" (= land, continent, country) isn't a loanword, because it already existed in Old Malay as "wanua". Refer to the transliteration of Kedukan Bukit Inscription, circa 7th century. This inscription is the oldest recorded writing of Old Malay, and the word "wanua" already existed to mean "country", in this case the country of Srivijaya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.87.240 (talk) 15:21, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Edited edit
I removed the entry "gulai" from the list as there are no substantial evidence, if any, that the word is derived from Tamil. Although them meaning of the word "gulai" refers to a curry-like dish, the related word "gulaian" of the native languages of East Malaysia and the localized variety of Malay there is semantically different, as it means "(stir fried) vegetables". A quick internet search will confirm this.
On another note, from what I read in this talk page, a majority of users disagreed with the motion to merge this article with List of loan words in Indonesian. Therefore I feel that it is wise to remove all of the loanwords which are not used in the Malay language proper (Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore. I'll try to do this in my free time. Datu Hulubalang Bincang 21:45, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Update: It has been almost a year and not a single edit was made to remove native Malay (Austronesian) words erroneously, probably as a result of original research listed here as loanwords. Therefore I will edit the article myself. Removed words include:
Barat west - native, not from Sanskrit/Hindi[1]
Buat do - native, not from Sanskrit/Hindi[2]
Kasihan (not kesian) pity - native, not from Mandarin [3]
Diam silent - native, not from Hokkien. c.f. kediaman [4]
Tali rope - native, not from Sanskrit/Tamil [5]
Mani semen - Arabic, not from Sanskrit [6]
Datu Hulubalang Bincang 16:36, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_s2.htm#28067
- ^ http://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_b.htm#25618
- ^ http://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_q.htm#27650
- ^ http://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_h.htm#26343
- ^ http://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_c2.htm#25873
- ^ https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%85%D9%86%D9%89#Arabic
Pau edit
Pau is not linked to the Portuguese's pao. How is it possible the chinese term for bun is derived from the portugese term for bread, when it has been a mainstay in China for more than a thousand years? Furthermore, the pau we see is definitely share alot more similarities with chinese buns that with any type of Portuguese bun, bread or cake. 17:37 24 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.152.209 (talk)
- Eight years late, but I see your point and have made the necessary corrections. Yekshemesh (talk) 08:21, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
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I removed "kasihan" and "lancar" as explained below with the reasons/proofs and references edit
The word "kasihan" is in fact comes from Malay word "kasih" (love - noun; also "to love" - verb) + a noun-building suffix "-an".
The word is also used to mean "someone" (the speaker) has a "love" (kasih) toward the spoken/meant/seen one.
As a proof, the word kasihan has been existing at least since 7th Century Srivijaya's Kota Kapur Inscription, dated 28 February 686 CE.
From 7th century Kota Kapur Inscription, written in Old Malay:
"Sarambat. kasihan. vacikarana.ityevamadi. janan muah ya sidha. pulan ka iya muah yan dosana vuatna jahat inan tathapi nivunuh yan sumpah talu muah ya mulam yam manu-"
The translation:
"saramwat (?), pekasih (love charm), force themself upon others, and many other things, may all that deed will not succeed and strike back to those whom guilty for that evil deeds; may all die because of curse. Also those whom spread evil rumors to sway people."
So, how come the word is falsely claimed as a word coming from Mandarin?
As for the word lancar, it is well-known as a word borrowed by Portuguese from Malay word "lancaran" ("lancar" - means 'swift' + "-an") as follows:
"Lancar" means "swift" or "fast", whereas "lancaran" (lancar + "-an" suffix) means "a kind of swift/fast boat (perahu)". Both words have existed at least before the influence of Portuguese words as proved by the existence of the same words (with same meanings) in "Sulalatus Salatin" (Sejarah Melayu) & other old Malay manuscripts.
References ("kasihan"):
- Coedes, George, 1930, [1] (Translated by Laurent Metzger, Edited & Introduced by Asmah Haji Omar with the title "Inskripsi Melayu Sriwijaya") p. 38 & p. 68 - for the inscriptions texts, translations, & meaning/ origin of "kasihan" that it derives from Malay word "kasih".
- [2] (for the word "kasih" & "kasihan") p. 682
- [3] (for suffix "-an") p. 71
- [4] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kota_Kapur_inscription - for the inscription texts & the word "kasihan" in Kota Kapur inscription
References ("lancar"):
* [5], p. 189 * [6], p. launch * [7] - for the existence of the word "lancar" & "lancaran" in old Malay manuscripts as early as 1356 in "Sulalatus Salatin" (Sejarah Melayu) (revised/rewritten/recopied in 1612 and subsequently) * [8] - https://www.etymonline.com/word/launch * [9] p. 880 & 881 (for the words "lancar" & "lancaran")
Master of Books (talk) 12:24, 1 March 2018 (UTC)