Talk:List of highest-grossing media franchises/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Mario number way too low?

Yes you can add an easy billion for box office but it just seems like for the Mario Franchise which is the best selling video game franchise by a landslide 7 billion just seems a bit off i know 2002 and no new sources but why not just take the shipment data from each year after 2002 and multiply it by MSRP? And yes it would be an estimation which that can be said until clearer data could be found but it just seems odd that it has made so little amount of money despite the fact the franchise has many entries in the top 50 best selling games of all time. Now yes there is Nintendo selects that has to be factored in but the quarterly reports are out there. That's just my two cents on the issue. 158.135.169.72 (talk) 05:03, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Every entry that invents a number by multiplying a price were removed.(this was discussed before) Many brands on the list are missing data. It is what it is. Timur9008 (talk) 06:26, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Why not look at a game like Mario 3D-All stars Nintendo shipped 9.07 units and at a $60 MSRP that comes out to roughly 544.2 million dollars — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.135.169.72 (talk) 17:11, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Because that's WP:OR Timur9008 (talk) 17:48, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Guardians

Guardians of the Galaxy needs to be added

box office:$1.8B

home media:$231.8M

total:$2.1B Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 15:35, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done Timur9008 (talk) 15:50, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2023

Need to Fix Mario section. Movie gross numbers is outdated for the movie. It is now $1,155,298,705. Mrnintendosmith (talk) 11:47, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done Timur9008 (talk) 12:02, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you also add the other parts? It is missing for Mario.

source: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Mario

As of April 2023:

Video games

$45,538,576,900

Licensed merchandise

$6,887,300,000

Print media (books and manga)

$1,659,000,000 Emann56 (talk) 03:59, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Fandom is not a reliable source Timur9008 (talk) 06:15, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Mobile Games

I wonder why mobile games are excluded from this list. 116.39.24.217 (talk) 05:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

If you may have noticed that article(List of highest-grossing mobile games) has been sent to Draft since its Jagged 85's work. Those sources need to be checked first. Timur9008 (talk) 07:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing mobile games

Honor of Kings / Arena of Valor - $14,667,500,000

Monster Strike - $10,000,000,000

Clash of Clans - $10,000,000,000

PUBG Mobile - $9,000,000,000

Puzzle & Dragons - $8,578,340,000

Pokémon Go - $7,760,000,000

Candy Crush Saga - $7,456,000,000

Fate/Grand Order - $6,300,000,000

References

Smurfs

The Smurfs should be added

merchandising $5 billion upto 2008

box office $1.1 billion

home Media $99.4 million

films$98.1 million

The Smurfs: The Legend of Smurfy Hollow $1.3 million

total $6.2 billion Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 10:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

References

 Done although I replaced the $5 billion figure with a $4 billion one from Reuters(a better reference in this case). I believe it was refferng to total reveneue since nowhere it is mentioned its merch sales. Timur9008 (talk) 10:39, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

$3 billion

Should we rise the threshold to $3 billion thoughts Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 07:11, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion no Timur9008 (talk) 07:28, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

William Shakespeare

Is it really right to list William Shakespeare as a creator for The Lion King? I know the story is heavily inspired/influenced by Macbeth, but I don't think it's fair to say it is a direct adaptation. 82.26.149.107 (talk) 13:56, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

No, that's absurd and I've removed it. -- ferret (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Musical

can anyone find box office gross for the Beauty and the Beast (musical) I found on the List of highest-grossing musical theatre productions page it has made $1.6B if this is right other franchises to be added is

Les Misérables (musical)

Wicked

Cats (musical)

Mamma Mia! (musical)

Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark

Aladdin (2011 musical)

Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 18:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Did not found the box office gross for that Timur9008 (talk) 07:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Why is Warhammer not on the list?

It's supposedly worth 12 billion as a franchise. MidasGunhazard (talk) 19:49, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

source? Timur9008 (talk) 07:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Mission Impossible

Can Mission Impossible be updated/moved to higher table? Just based on the already linked sources, it has a gross closer to $6.28 billion.

Sources:

Revenue in November 2011, before release of Ghost Protocol: $4 billion

Worldwide Box Office for Ghost Protocol, Rogue Nation, and Fallout: $2.17 billion

Domestic Video Sales for Releases After 2011: $115 million Interropunct (talk) 06:57, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I think we should wait for an updated figure for total revenue Timur9008 (talk) 07:33, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

The new film out next month we probably could do it just after that film done it cinemas run we could be waiting years for a another total update do we really want to wait that long Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 21:00, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Dragon Ball

Most online pages tell, that dragonball grossed above 24 billion. Why did someone edited it to 9 billion here? By now it should be 25 billion or more. Käsesticks (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

This has been discussed before already but that's Wikipedia:CITOGENESIS given those online pages got their numbers from Wikipedia itself aka the previous version of this article. Timur9008 (talk) 12:20, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, but the thing is, that the dragon ball games alone made several billion dollards in the last few years. Dragonball Dokkan battle and Dragonball Legends together grossed above 4 billion dollards till 2022. I didnt found data on 2023.Im pretty sure, that all Dragonball games combined grossed above 9 billion by now, so how is dragonball as a franchise listed as 9 billion dollars? Käsesticks (talk) 17:12, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

If got the sources I will add them. Dragon Ball Z: Dokkan Battle is already listed at $3 billion. Timur9008 (talk) 18:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Poorly sourced

Sorry but this list is bad and needs to allow estimates to an extent. Mario for example shouldnt be anywhere near that low. Its misleading when this page is linked on other websites because of how unequal this page is when it comes to what data is alowed to be sourced or not. 2600:1011:B054:DD7E:88AE:D373:DBE1:6F21 (talk) 06:15, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

The list uses estimates (The Licensing Letter sources for example). Also you might to check what the page looked like prior to November 2022 Timur9008 (talk) 08:46, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

One piece?

Why the hell is one piece franchise not in here but demon slayer is?? Last i checked the one piece franchise sold 20.515 billion and the manga sales alone is now on 515 million how the heck is it not in the list???[1]https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/money-finance/the-25-highest-grossing-media-franchises-of-all-time/ 111.235.88.95 (talk) 23:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Title Max source is List of highest-grossing media franchises Wikipedia page, this article(says at the bottom of the graph) Timur9008 (talk) 07:39, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

It lists Wikipedia as the source, but the information doesn't really match the current list and information on the web. I understand the list in Wikipedia is dynamic due to the nature of the information, but One Piece (as an example) is currently above the $12B mark. Errors like this make the listed information seem dubious or inaccurate, so the list needs to reflect its own title for it to be considered reliable. Serapheid (talk) 12:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

This has already been discussed but the short version is that its Wikipedia:CITOGENESIS given the numbers on the previous version of this article were inflated by an editor who is now banned.

Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises/Archive_2#Sources_cleanup/Jagged_85_cleanup Timur9008 (talk) 17:35, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Fate franchise?

As far as I'm aware, Type-Moon's Fate falls under the definition of a multimedia franchise (having multiple anime, manga, games, books, drama CDs, games, etc. all consolidated under a single company) and is definitely sitting above $5 billion.

Their mobile game alone has grossed $5.4 billion, as referenced on the Fate/Grand Order page, so with the rest of the franchise sales, it's probably somewhere at above $6 billion? 2A00:6020:50A5:C500:54A9:B448:FA41:5BA2 (talk) 01:43, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Timur9008 (talk) 02:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Cabbage?

Should Cabbage Patch Kids witch was just added count? Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 09:14, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I think it counts. (record albums and board games.) Timur9008 (talk) 14:15, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

I be looking at it aswell as similar franchises (Barbie,G.I. Joe,My Little Pony, etrc

Personally I would only include money for actual media sales (box office, home media sales for example) Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 10:12, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. Merch sales are as equily important + stuff like TV Revenue. Timur9008 (talk) 10:46, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Ferret @Sergecross73 what do you guys think? Timur9008 (talk) 10:57, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I've only helped here with basic Wikipedia policy disputes. I don't really know much about how this list has historically compiled, what inclusion criteria has been in place, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 16:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Should names of franchises be italicized?

For those interested in style guidelines, this may be of interest: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Titles of works#Should names of franchises be italicized? - Manifestation (talk) 17:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

One Piece?

Every source I've seen puts One Piece well above 2 billion. It is the highest selling manga of all time. The article on here puts its merchandise alone at 1 billion. It has sold more than 500 million volumes, which passes 2 billion if each volume sells for more than $4. A I missing something? 100.37.197.200 (talk) 05:33, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Aside from the $1 billion merch figure from 4kids there are no figures mentioning how much the manga grossed for example hence One Piece can't be added.(since the threshold is $2 billion) Timur9008 (talk) 09:06, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Garfielf

Where is Garfield? He rakes in 1 billion a year. 69.132.248.14 (talk) 14:30, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

source? Timur9008 (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Here what I could find

merchandise

“The classic character is so beloved, Licensing International reported that Garfield merchandise makes $750 million to $1 billion in annual sales”

home media: $19.4 million

box office:

total:not including Merchandise:$19.4 million

Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 18:47, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

References

Yeah that's not enough for it make the list. Many brands do $1 billion in merch sales annually. Has to be specific(for example, x brand did $1 billion in merch sales in 2004) Timur9008 (talk) 02:27, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto

Grand Theft Auto seems to be underreported here. GTA grossed 8.33B just in the last 10 years.

[2]https://www.tweaktown.com/news/91612/grand-theft-auto-franchise-revenues-break-8-33-billion-since-gta-vs-release/index.html Rantos9 (talk) 21:39, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we can use TweakTown as a source. Timur9008 (talk) 06:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

I went ahead and updated the GTA V number with the MarketWatch estimated revenue source that's used in the main GTA V article. Timur9008 (talk) 06:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Dungeon and Fighter

Dungeon and Fighter The total revenue has reached $22 billion.

•  Done updated! Timur9008 (talk) 16:03, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Can you please add Family Guy

Since it made $4.83 billion total, $3.8 Billion from Merchandise Sales, $1 Billion from DVD and Blu–Ray Sales, and $300 Million Dollars from Film and Video Game Sales. 23.245.47.124 (talk) 19:17, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

source? Timur9008 (talk) 03:33, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

video game numbers for batman?

does the batman section include video game revenue? if not could someone add it. batman arkham city alone has generated 600 million in revenue according its wikipedia page so its important. Snowty20000 (talk) 03:50, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

The Batman: Arkham City revenue number was cited to Linkedin which is not a reliable source. [3] Timur9008 (talk) 05:31, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

the dceu section merch.

the dceu section claims 500 million in merch has been made. the article linked says wonder woman as a character made 500 million to 1 billion but the actual money earned from the film itself was 100 million so why are we counting it as 500? could someone edit that or clarify what counts towards "dceu". Snowty20000 (talk) 03:53, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done corrected. Nice catch! Timur9008 (talk) 05:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

man of steel 170 million promotion.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/warner-bros-man-steel-nabs-562225/ according to the hollywood reporter (and like 50 other places) warner brothers was paid 170 million by various comapanys to promote man of steel could this be counted towards earning for the dceu? Snowty20000 (talk) 06:14, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

not sure how that add up to revenue Timur9008 (talk) 14:51, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

dceu global

"the numbers" only includes domestic home revenue. https://deadline.com/2017/03/batman-v-superman-box-office-profit-2016-1202049201/ batman vs superman earned over 100 million in worldwide home revenue says deadline. can we fix this to include global? or is deadline not reliable enough? https://deadline.com/2017/03/suicide-squad-box-office-profit-2016-1202052792/ https://deadline.com/2019/03/aquaman-box-office-profit-2018-1202584701/ https://deadline.com/2018/03/wonder-woman-box-office-profit-2017-1202351443/ batman v superman, suicide squad, wonder woman, aquaman, shazam, and man of steel. all have profit breakdowns that list global home revenue from deadline although the data might be hard to access normally due to age. i can also probably find other profit breakdowns including global from other places. Forbes did one for justice league, variety did some for various dceu movies etc. let me know if this can be added. Snowty20000 (talk) 06:24, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Fell free to add it then. The Numbers source is used because its all is compiled in one source. Timur9008 (talk) 15:16, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

spider man video games

the recent insomniac leaks revealed revenue for spiderman milies morales to be 260 million. this should be added to the spiderman game section. Snowty20000 (talk) 08:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

source? I'm not sure if we can use the leaks as sources Timur9008 (talk) 14:59, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

https://gamingbolt.com/marvels-spider-man-miles-morales-has-sold-over-10-2-million-units Snowty20000 (talk) 19:20, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Epic games

Where is fortnite epic games and such Navaneeth8606 (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

we need sources Timur9008 (talk) 15:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/3/22417447/fortnite-revenue-9-billion-epic-games-apple-antitrust-case Snowty20000 (talk) 06:25, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done added Timur9008 (talk) 06:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

league of legends

can't seem to find league of legends on here, pretty sure it qualifies as a media franchise. this reuters report taken from league of legends own Wikipedia page says it earned 2.1 billion in 2017, 1.4 in 2018, and 1.5 billion in 2019. plus 1.7 in 2020. anyone wanna add it? https://web.archive.org/web/20210117093230/https://www.reuters.com/article/esports-lol-revenue-idUSFLM2vzDZL Snowty20000 (talk) 09:20, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

The Reuters report cites SuperData Research. I didn't add League of Legends for this very reason.

This is the same site [4]. SuperData itself has not been discussed at the reliable sources noticeboard so I'm not if we can use it. Timur9008 (talk) 15:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

GTA

The revenue for GTA seems very understated:

- GTA IV is $500m in the article but that is only for the first week of sales. Lifetime revenue is over $2bn: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/76992/grand-theft-auto-iv-made-huge-2-billion-in-sales-revenues/index.html

- GTA San Andreas is again only first week of sales - it's first week of sales was only 2 million copies (in USA) but it's total sales are 27.5m (around the same as GTA IV which has a revenue of $2bn): https://kotaku.com/gta-iv-overtakes-san-andreas-in-lifetime-sales-correct-5840484

- No mobile sales, no sales of remakes and no sales of GTA 1 & 2 are included. Mobile alone is over $100m: https://mobilegamer.biz/rockstar-has-earned-way-over-100m-from-gta-on-mobile/#:~:text=Rockstar's%20mobile%20catalogue%20was%20pulling,of%20Rockstar's%20more%20recent%20releases. Rdc525 (talk) 15:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The $2 billion source for "Lifetime revenue" revenue for GTA IV cites Linkedin which is not a reliable source. I added the mobile revenue but there is no information on the rest. Timur9008 (talk) 16:29, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Why not include Pachinko/Pachislot in sales? Hokuto no Ken did $15B since 2002.

Hokuto no Ken (Fist of the North Star) did ~$15b+ in sales in Pachislot / Pachinko sales since 2002. 2017 Sega annual report specifically calls out on page 70 that they sold 2.71 million units of this model. This is the best selling pachi machine of all time that uses any media franchise. Since then they've sold quite a bit more. Average price is not mentioned there, but can be calculated by looking at average pachislot machine sales/units. Remotayx (talk) 02:03, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Because that's WP:NOR. There was a Pachinko section at the main Pachinko article [5] but I removed it because it was added by User:Maestro2016 who is now banned. Timur9008 (talk) 05:36, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

The source I provided was the annual report of a publicly traded company. Definitely a reliable source. Pachislots/Pachinko sales directly related to a media franchise seems relevant here, no? Remotayx (talk) 05:41, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

X product multiplied by price is what I meant. I believe Pachislots/Pachinko sales are under Retail Sales which there is no number. The source is reliable thought yeah. Timur9008 (talk) 05:49, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Page 43 of annual report, Pachislot and Pachinko Machine Business did 148.2B JPY in sales that year. (stated again on page 51). This is only pachislot/pachinko machines business.

On page 88 we have Pachinko Machine and Pachislot unit sales by year. For 2017 we can see 215,000 pachislot unit sales and 138,000 pachinko unit sales for a total of 353,000 units. Divide this by Pachinko/pachi segment sales for 419,830 jpy per unit. In today's exchange rate that's $2,798. In 2017's exchange rate (112 to the dollar) it's $3,748. The only inaccuracy here is Sega Sammy sells non Hokuto no Ken machines as well, though 'average price' will likely still be an excellent barometer of the real figure. Can easily multiply total unit sales by one of these 'averages'. Anyway, it's just wild how big of a franchise this anime series is if you include Pachinko/pachislot sales. Few understand how big it is! Remotayx (talk) 06:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Why aren't the Pokemon GAMES counted towards it's total????

seems like a strange thing to exclude 2600:8800:2598:9A00:7C7D:3606:36A6:10E7 (talk) 10:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

see Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises/Archive_3#Pokémon_main_series_and_spin-off_video_game_revenues_not_included Timur9008 (talk) 15:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Trolls

I got a question trolls as most of the money seems to come form before it became a media franchises.

just questing it eligible like where do we draw the line

other franchises I questing

care baers

hello kitty

Cabbage Patch Kids

Barbie

:

Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 12:18, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure TBH. I added Trolls because I was digging trough DIC Entertainment's old website and finding the $5 billion figure was difficult as it is. I guess we can add a note like Cabbage Patch Kids. Timur9008 (talk) 13:23, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I looked at the source and it look like it was $5B for 1959-05 and not linked to any tv series or film I personally would not include it Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 15:05, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Feel free to remove it then. I will move the $5 billion figure to Trolls (franchise) then. Timur9008 (talk) 15:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

now  Done Timur9008 (talk) 15:30, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

One Piece :3

shits a huge series as shown by One Piece i would go find the stats but im not too sure how to format this article 👍 Vkoid (talk) 03:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

One Piece is a huge series no doubt but aside from this $1 billion figure from 4kids [6] and some box office numbers there is nothing to go on. Timur9008 (talk) 06:28, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

@Timur9008 i mean... we know its sold at least 500 Million copies, and from what im finding volumes are usually around ¥400, that to usd is $2.64. so we can infer theyve made at least $1.32 Billion from manga sales Vkoid (talk) 01:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

That's WP:OR (x product multiplied by price) Timur9008 (talk) 06:46, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The old revisions.

I don't get the newer versions. Back before November 2022, Mario was roughly around 40 billion. But now it is at 8 billion, and lower than series like Demon Slayer. Stuff like that doesn't make sense to me personally. So why was there this big change starting November 2022? The Miracle Girls (talk) 19:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

This was discussed back then. Short version is that the numbers were inflated by an editor who is now banned (User:Maestro2016)

Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises/Archive_2#Removal_of_all_entries_with_figures_invented_by_multiplying_prices Timur9008 (talk) 00:49, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, fair. Although on that note then, now I'm really confused as to how stuff like Demon Slayer is higher than stuff like Mario. Assuming each copy of 8 Deluxe is sold at full price, that'd be about 3.5 billion dollars. I get reductions for the cost of physical productions, and the game costing less on days like Black Friday (although the Mario Movie was just 1.4 billion, when with reductions due to cost and promotions it'd be about 1.2 billion), but I'd think there'd be enough sales throughout the series to justify the end means.

Check-out: Ohhh, 7 billion for games since 2002. No reports since them I'd assume then. The Miracle Girls (talk) 14:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

'assuming full price' is exactly what we can do, as games are discounted over time, or have sales, holiday spikes, etc. Additionally, the full retail price doesn't go to Nintendo alone, so their gross is lower than the bare retail price. The bottom line is we ran into a sourcing issue, and if we can find new suitable sourcing, we'll adjust the numbers upward again. -- ferret (talk) 15:09, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Alright, and I know. Thank you for the response. The Miracle Girls (talk) 20:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I was also able to find a couple of articles, that get a higher number.

IGN, the respected video games review site (rough estimate of 30 billion, from 2018 numbers that they found) How Mario Outsells Every Other Game Franchise - IGN

33rdSquare, a stock company (article from October 2023, that says the merchandise makes Mario worth 30 billion, but the final net worth is 25 billion after reductions and whatnot) How Much is Mario Worth in 2024? A Staggering $25 Billion Net Worth Explained - 33rd Square The Miracle Girls (talk) 20:47, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

you should look up WP:CITOGENESIS since now neither sites they say where they got the numbers. Timur9008 (talk) 05:26, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Alright. The Miracle Girls (talk) 19:09, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Interesting article. And also, every source seems to be saying roughly 30 billion, but none of them got their answer as to where. The earliest I see for that is Titlemax. The Miracle Girls (talk) 19:21, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Title Max source [7] is List of highest-grossing media franchises Wikipedia page, this article(says at the bottom of the graph)

In other words these sources can not be used. Timur9008 (talk) 01:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Because it was wrong The Miracle Girls (talk) 19:48, 9 April 2024 (UTC)