Talk:List of Prime Ministers of Japan
|WikiProject Japan||(Rated List-class, High-importance)|
|WikiProject Politics||(Rated List-class, Mid-importance)|
For the record I am counting the present Prime Minister Koizumi Junichiro as the 68th Prime Minister not the 56th. After all if it was good enough for Grover Cleveland to be counted twice as President of the United States then be good enough for Prime Ministers of Japan serving non-consecutive terms to be counted more than once as well.--The Shadow Treasurer 04:33, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
List update in progress
The current list is riddled with mistakes and ommissions. I am currently working on a revised list. What was the source for the original list? JeroenHoek 14:14, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I demand a recount
Here in Australia the interim Prime Ministers are counted, so therefore I do not see why the same could not also applied with the Prime Ministers of Japan. Either that or just get rid of the numbers altogether. --The Shadow Treasurer 29 June 2005 04:52 (UTC)
- Apparantly, in Japan they don't. 
- None of the interim ministers held that post very long (a few days mostly). Perhaps interim prime minister isn't the right term for "the guy that does whatever the previous prime minister was doing until a new prime minister is available", but they shouldn't be counted. JeroenHoek 29 June 2005 09:28 (UTC)
The shortest serving Australian Prime Minister Frank Forde was only in the job for six days. If he can be counted for that short a period then it is not unreasonable for the interims in Japan to be counted as well.--The Shadow Treasurer 29 June 2005 23:23 (UTC)
- This article aims to present a comprehensive list of Japanese Prime Ministers. It makes sense to include who acted as interim prime minister during gaps between cabinets. However, an acting prime minister is not a prime minister. The first column shows the number of the cabinet, the second the number of the individual.
- Also, history books, academic papers and official Japanese government material all use the currently used numbering for as far as I can tell, they call Koizumi Junichirō the 87th prime minister, not the 95th. JeroenHoek 30 June 2005 11:56 (UTC)
I am a historian with a degree in East Asian studies and I concur that the interims should not be counted.
Also, this characterization "imperial rule" for Konoe Fumimaro's governments has no basis in Japanese historiography whatsoever. His governments should also be labeled "no party."
silentcity 9 August 2005 20:19 (UTC)
- Then please feel free to edit the entries for Konoe. I didn't change those descriptions when I revised the list, there might be some wrong data in it (the list had a lot of mistakes and ommisions before I revised it, so some mistakes may remain) JeroenHoek 20:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Acting Prime Ministers should not be counted if he is only standing in for a Prime Minister who is absent or sick but who is still commissioned for that high office. However interim Prime Ministers should be counted because they are exactly that Prime Minister for an interim period between the departure of the previous Prime Minister and the appointment of a Prime Minister who would serve for a much more substantial period. To not count an interim Prime Minister for the brief time that he served is like saying that this period in time never existed. --The Shadow Treasurer 03:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
"I am a historian with a degree in East Asian studies and I concur that the interims should not be counted."
As I already said I do not agree with the interims not being counted. Historical papers and official documents can say whatever they want, does not mean they are right. Therefore I do not see the relevance of your degree since when do you need a degree for simple arithmetic. --The Shadow Treasurer 03:48, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Some of the PM names are incorrectly listed using the Japanese convention (Last name first) instead of Wikipedia's English-standard convention. If someone gets a chance, it would be a good idea to review the entire list for the sake of consistency. Best, J Readings 12:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
This issue has recently arisen again. The following is a conversation of mine with User:WhisperToMe on the subject, following a recent edit:
- You recently removed the convention on this list that all names follow the Japanese name order (family name, given name). While your solution of following the Japanese order for politicians born before 1868, and the Western order for those born in 1868 or later, follows the letter of MOS:JAPAN, it is extremely confusing and inconsistent in a list which spans the two periods without a gap. For instance, Wakatsuki Reijirō and Osachi Hamaguchi were born only four years apart, and were consecutive Prime Ministers, but their names now follow different orders. I recommend that this be reconsidered. BartBassist (talk) 16:49, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
- While I understand what was going on before, it feels strange to have a single page go against the MOS which is supposed to globally apply to all articles on EN. The usage of having "old" names be FN-GN and "new" ones be GN-FN happens in many places. The only reason why the prime minister list is so different is because, as you said, some of those figures are only a few years apart.
- This is a bit of a cheat's solution, but could we argue that, although the early PMs were born before the Meiji era, the first term started in 1885, in the Meiji era, so we should treat all the PMs as modern figures and use the western order. That way, the list would at least be consistent. BartBassist (talk) 17:36, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
- While if I had to choose having them all in the same order, I would prefer them all to be GN-FN (after all the practice of name switching started in Meiji) - It may be a good idea to mention this on the MOS-JA talk page to see what others think too WhisperToMe (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk)
Former Ministerial Offices Held (Added)
I added this column to the article. I got the idea from List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom, which became a featured article at one point. The details on that article are impressive and useful. Hopefully, we can add similar details here. J Readings (talk) 06:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not stated anywhere as to what the background colors indicate. Although it appears that they are an indication of party affiliation, there are some differences. Anyone know for sure? CFLeon (talk) 23:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- I've attempted to put a color code box at the head of the article to let readers know which parties correspond to which colors. This was used successfully in the List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom. I hoped to repeat it here, but a technical glitch seems to screw everything up right now. If anyone knows how to match the Japanese party colors in the tables with the colors in the opening box at the head of the article, I would appreciate it. Thanks again, J Readings (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
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I had already edited the article before. So, I'll post here instead of editing again: I just want to point out that Ashida Hitoshi's Minshutō (Democratic Party, 1947-1950, (ja)) and Hatoyama Ichirō's Nihon Minshutō (Democratic Party of Japan, 1954-1955, (ja)) were - despite some continuity - two different parties. --Asakura Akira (talk) 08:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I have compiled list of prime ministerial election results (User:Asakura Akira/Diet directory#Election of the Prime Minister of Japan) from the Japanese Wikipedia, and I was wondering whether there would be demand for or objection against including the results table as it is (*) in this article or if it should be transformed into a separate article of its own instead as I had originally intended. Any thoughts?
(*): Of course, except for the colours which now match the era-spanning colour scheme used in Commons:Category:Pie charts for elections in Japan which roughly reflects pre-/post-war continuities between parties; but adapting the table to the colours used here is quickly done if it should be included here.
--Asakura Akira (talk) 12:28, 4 September 2012 (UTC)