Talk:Kyaikhtisaung Sayadaw

Notability and Close Connection Tags

A message from the Creator

Regarding tags for notability and close connection- this man was a prominent figure in Myanmar Buddhism until his death. He was highly publicized in the country and his work is still discussed after his death. There simply isn't very much information in English about him. Therefore, as I only speak English, I can't provide more than one source about specific points in his biography. I have no connection to him, though I have visited the site he used to live in many times. I plan to write a lot more of these articles about prominent and well-known sites in Myanmar as I research them, so how can I avoid the 'close connection' tag? Brittney Tun

Hello Brittney Tun. When international notability of a subject is difficult to assess but that the article promotes the person (or organization), it is easy to assume (sometimes mistakenly) that the writer may have a close connection. I will remove the close connection tag. For notability it would be very useful to include references to sources independent of the subject. If these are difficult to find the notability may unfortunately be in question. The language barrier may also make it more difficult: I find no reference to this name when searching The Guardian archives, for instance. Could this be because there are other common transliterations of the name? Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 18:41, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

I noticed that you already removed the notability and coi tags. Because I see an article about the display of the body, I'll consider that this is a significant claim of notability and not restore the tags. —PaleoNeonate – 18:44, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

-Hi, Paleo|Neonate, yes, unfortunately he had many, many names. This is common in Myanmar Buddhism, as the monk is renamed upon ordination, then given more and more honorary titles throughout his life. This monk earned a PhD from Thailand, but since I could not find a real reference for that (yet), I did not include it. So, between the plethora of names (some included in the article) and honorary titles and the language barrier which causes different spellings in English, it took me many hours to find the articles I did reference. I learned a lot in the process, as I had believed that I was fairly familiar with Myanmar to English phonetics. Another question for you, please: how do I go about explaining what the monk was believed by his followers to have accomplished (spiritually, such as nirvana) without sounding 'adverty'? The point is not to make a concrete statement about his beliefs as fact, but to factually point out the beliefs of his followers. Brittney Tun —Preceding undated comment added 03:13, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Brittney Tun: Note that it's possible to type {{re|PaleoNeonate}} at the beginning of a message to ping/notify me and include a link to my user (rather than needing to copy-paste the signature). That's a good question. In this case it is possible to avoid assertions like He is ... or He has achieved ... and to instead use a formulation like He is considered by ... to be ... ideally supported by a secondary source (this way it is attributed rather than stated in the encyclopedia's voice). Honorifics should also be minimized throughout the text (but are generally acceptable as a mention in the lead and in the infobox), these include for instance prefixes like reverend, saint, his/her sanctity, Dr., Sir, Lady, etc. Also, sometimes it is best to say less than to say too much (Wikipedia is different than a directory or a Curriculum Vitae, of course). Here are some relevant links: WP:BLP, MOS:HONORIFICS, WP:ATTRIBUTION, WP:VERIFIABILITY, WP:NOT. —PaleoNeonate – 03:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: Noted with thanks -Brittney Tun

@Brittney Tun: I just reread the article and am now wondering if the advert tag shouldn't also be removed, I've seen worse. The main part which appears promotional are the spiritual phases... are these considered standard phases of the tradition, or are they considered milestones of his personal life? Would these also come from Ashin Pannadipa and His Exertions? If so, what I would recommend would be to insert more inline references in those sections including page numbers. A clean way to do this (multiple individual page references to the same book) for instance would be to use {{sfn|Analla|2015|p=pagenumber}} to reference a page of that work, and to use in the Bibliography section:  • {{cite book|last=Analla|first=Ds|year=2015|title=Ashin Pannadipa and His Exertions|editor-last=Aung|editor-first=Naing Htet|location=Myanmar|language=English, Burmese|ref=harv}}. —PaleoNeonate – 06:22, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hmm I now found them at [1]... there is the problem of copyright where this cannot be copied as-is, especially that there is a copyright at the bottom of the website. —PaleoNeonate – 06:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: Got it. I will try to reword it... yes, it is also in the book in much more detail. The book is grammatically lacking. I will take care of it. Thanks for the third look/ review.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Brittney Tun (talk • contribs) 06:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: Also, the spiritual phases are very specific to this monk. It was not standard. The Weizza path (wizard path) to monkhood is rare in this century, which was why he was marked as a very interesting person and his stages are very notable in Myanmar culture.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Brittney Tun (talk • contribs) 06:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Brittney Tun. I am Diannaa and I am an administrator on this wiki. I have listed the article at Wikipedia:Copyright problems, a process which allows you some time to perform the clean-up. Meanwhile the copyvio core template hides the copyvio material from public view. There's further instructions at your talk page. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 09:48, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Thank you for your patience as I address this matter. I just got off work and am taking care of it now. I'll notify you when the sufficient changes have taken place and also cite the pages form the book as PaleoNeonate advised.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Brittney Tun (talk • contribs) 09:54, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Brittney Tun: Messages can be signed and timestamped automatically by appending four consecutive tildes (~~~~) at the end of the message. Happy editing, —PaleoNeonate – 10:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: I'm learning and I'm loving it. Thank you for all of your assistance.Brittney Tun (talk) 11:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Diannaa:I have just re-formatted all text in violation or copyright and addressed the citation issues needed to reform the 'advert' nature of the article. I think this version is more 'realistic.' I am blind to some of my changes until the notifications are removed by admin, so its a little difficult to proof everything. Please check it and if everything pans out, please remove the advert tags and copyright tags. Thanks in advance. Brittney Tun (talk) 11:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Diannaa: I have created the temporary page as per your advice. Thanks. Brittney Tun (talk) 10:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

@PaleoNeonate: I'd appreciate it you'd look over the changes and extra citations to see if it warrants some removals of tags that you placed. Brittney Tun (talk) 03:59, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello again. I read the article again and improved the citation details (and deduplicated some using ref tags), then updated the tags. The lead does not need to include citations if it summarizes already sourced information from the article. However, the first two sections (early life and marriages) lack citations which I recommend to add (after which the remaining tag could be removed). I noticed one reference to a The Golden Land of Myanmar article which is not considered a reliable source (state-issued and propagandist). However, it is probably good to assess notability (that is a national paper so has wide local audience) and to mention important regional events like the hoisting. —PaleoNeonate – 08:40, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Adding: I also marked one reference as potentially unreliable, which appears to link to a commercial resort ad (may be considered spammy). I'm wondering if a small introduction at the beginning of the spiritual path/milestones would be useful, to establish the context or explain why these are worth listing and detailing. Maybe a short paragraph setting the Burmese Buddhist and political context or such... Also, to a westerner it may seem difficult to understand the significance of those hoisting/restorations and why public infrastructure like bridges and schools must be built or inaugurated by public religious figures and advertized this way in the fully state-controlled national media. —PaleoNeonate – 08:52, 22 September 2017 (UTC)