Talk:Kwara State
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Esie Village edit
Kwara State has one of the world most mysterious occurence where a whole village and its residence was turned into a stone, if you have been to Esie village before you can testify to the story, over 1500 stone images of human beings and animals are on display since 1775 when they were first discovered, if you have been there before please we need pictures or share your experience with us. Thanks, Akinfemiwa Aliu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.37.178.117 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 21 January 2007
Move discussion edit
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Kwara which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:00, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
- That was approved, so the archived discussion is now at Talk:Kwara (disambiguation). – Fayenatic London 20:55, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Requested move 27 October 2015 edit
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: No consensus after over a month of discussion. Cúchullain t/c 16:28, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Kwara → Kwara State – It was fine to move the disambiguation page from Kwara to Kwara (disambiguation), but the article on the state in Nigeria should go back to Kwara State as that is its name, see official website http://www.kwarastate.gov.ng . Kwara should redirect to Kwara State as the primary meaning. – Fayenatic London 20:58, 27 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Armbrust The Homunculus 01:03, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose. "Kwara State" may be a name that it is used, but I do not think it is the common name, or even the official, legal name. Even the website of the state which is cited above repeatedly refers to the state as "Kwara" when used as part of a sentence or phrase ("Kwara cuts cost of hospital cards"; "Kwara Exports Cassava Chips to China"; "Kwara Approves Sale of Residential Quarters to Civil Servants"; etc.). And as far as I can determine, the official, legal name of the state is "Kwara": see Constitution of Nigeria, article 3(1). Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:20, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- Headlines tend to abbreviate. Kwara State still has a strong claim to be the common name, from the names of such institutions as Kwara State University and Kwara State Polytechnic. – Fayenatic London 23:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- Hm, those don't convince me, because the "State" in those names may well be modifying "University" and "Polynechnic" (ie, indicating that they are public or state-run institutions) rather than being part of a state name, similar to "Oklahoma State University", "Florida State University", etc. No one uses those institution names to suggest that the common name for the states are "Oklahoma State" or "Florida State". And yes—headlines abbreviate—and these "abbreviations" are all part and parcel of how we determine what is the common name. When it's not the official name and appears to have no superior claim to be more commonly used than just "Kwara", what argument remains? Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:23, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- The "About" page on the official website mostly repeats "Kwara State" [1], as does the Statistics page [2] and its subpages. Where such pages mix usage with the long and short form, this appears to be just to avoid being too repetitive. I acknowledge that other Wikipedia articles on Nigerian states need to be named "State" to avoid ambiguity, and that this consideration does not arise here. However, I see no persuasive evidence to diverge from the naming convention. – Fayenatic London 08:15, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- In any case, I think we need to look at common usage beyond just the state's official webpage. From what I have seen, both are used, but if anything, "Kwara" is more common than "Kwara State" in most sources that I have examined (most of which have been books and newspapers rather than webpages). I don't see enough evidence to diverge from what appears to be the legal name of the place. As for the "convention" for states of Nigeria—examining the variety of formats used for the articles in Category:States of Nigeria, I would say that there is no convention at the current time. Some are simply "FOO" (13), some are "FOO (state)" (10), and some are "FOO State" (14). I can't see how such a state of affairs militates in favour of any particular format. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:54, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- OK, I was thinking of the names of the categories within Category:States of Nigeria, Category:Populated places in Nigeria by state, Category:People by state in Nigeria, Category:Nigerian people by occupation by state etc. It seems to me regrettable to lose the consistency there in favour of following the varied naming of the lead articles. (For the benefit of other readers, that is the reason behind this discussion.) – Fayenatic London 14:08, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- It's true that a convention seems to have been adopted for the categories that doesn't reflect the name of the articles in over half the cases. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:16, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
- I guess that convention could be maintained. If the categories are nominated for renaming under WP:C2D, speedy renaming could be opposed under C2C, so they would at least need a full discussion. – Fayenatic London 09:01, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
- Based on what I have seen, users can (and do) oppose speedy category rename nominations and thereby force full discussions for pretty much any reason they feel is valid. Which is probably fair enough. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:26, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
- I guess that convention could be maintained. If the categories are nominated for renaming under WP:C2D, speedy renaming could be opposed under C2C, so they would at least need a full discussion. – Fayenatic London 09:01, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
- It's true that a convention seems to have been adopted for the categories that doesn't reflect the name of the articles in over half the cases. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:16, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
- OK, I was thinking of the names of the categories within Category:States of Nigeria, Category:Populated places in Nigeria by state, Category:People by state in Nigeria, Category:Nigerian people by occupation by state etc. It seems to me regrettable to lose the consistency there in favour of following the varied naming of the lead articles. (For the benefit of other readers, that is the reason behind this discussion.) – Fayenatic London 14:08, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- In any case, I think we need to look at common usage beyond just the state's official webpage. From what I have seen, both are used, but if anything, "Kwara" is more common than "Kwara State" in most sources that I have examined (most of which have been books and newspapers rather than webpages). I don't see enough evidence to diverge from what appears to be the legal name of the place. As for the "convention" for states of Nigeria—examining the variety of formats used for the articles in Category:States of Nigeria, I would say that there is no convention at the current time. Some are simply "FOO" (13), some are "FOO (state)" (10), and some are "FOO State" (14). I can't see how such a state of affairs militates in favour of any particular format. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:54, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- The "About" page on the official website mostly repeats "Kwara State" [1], as does the Statistics page [2] and its subpages. Where such pages mix usage with the long and short form, this appears to be just to avoid being too repetitive. I acknowledge that other Wikipedia articles on Nigerian states need to be named "State" to avoid ambiguity, and that this consideration does not arise here. However, I see no persuasive evidence to diverge from the naming convention. – Fayenatic London 08:15, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
- Hm, those don't convince me, because the "State" in those names may well be modifying "University" and "Polynechnic" (ie, indicating that they are public or state-run institutions) rather than being part of a state name, similar to "Oklahoma State University", "Florida State University", etc. No one uses those institution names to suggest that the common name for the states are "Oklahoma State" or "Florida State". And yes—headlines abbreviate—and these "abbreviations" are all part and parcel of how we determine what is the common name. When it's not the official name and appears to have no superior claim to be more commonly used than just "Kwara", what argument remains? Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:23, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- Headlines tend to abbreviate. Kwara State still has a strong claim to be the common name, from the names of such institutions as Kwara State University and Kwara State Polytechnic. – Fayenatic London 23:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
- Support – it's Kwara State, not simply Kwara. There are numerous entities within the State which omit 'State' (eg a hotel, a football club) but the proper name is Kwara State. This is reflected in the article Kwara where 'State' is appended in every occurrence except the first one. Or this: Kwara State Govt, address Ilorin, Kwara State. Oculi (talk) 01:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- No, User:Oculi, as I noted above with a citation, the official, legal name (as set out in the Constitution of the federal republic) is "Kwara". Both forms of the name are used in a variety of contexts, and a variety of other arguments can be made for one or the other, but it's flat out incorrect to say that the "proper name" is "Kwara State" if what you mean is the official name at law. But in any case, as I hope everyone realises by this point in the discussion, we generally name articles in WP after the common name, not necessarily after the official name. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:25, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
- Support: The vast majority of scholarly literature refers to Kwara State, not Kwara, thus the Common name is Kwara State. See these searches for Kwara [3] and [4]. Searching for Kwara by itself is also complicated by a medical project in Nigeria known as Kwara-I and a village language in the Solomon Islands named Kwara 'Ae. --Mike Cline (talk) 14:39, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose: According to the Constitution of Nigeria, the official name is "Kwara". Some states on wikipedia have the word "State" next to them as a natural disambiguation, to distinguish a city of the same name from the state. For example, Lagos State to distinguish from Lagos, Kano State to distinguish from Kano etc. official names are quite irrelevant in this issue anyway, as common name is the standard naming convention on Wikipedia; the official name of US states is "State of FOO", but the common names are used instead. based on quick search, Kwara, Nigeria brings up more hits than Kwara State, Nigeria; which makes "Kwara" the common name. Also, I believe the "state" is quite redundant in the article title anyway.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamie Tubers (talk • contribs)
- A google search Kwara, Nigeria -wikipedia [5] reveal very few hits for "Kwara" alone when referring to the state. Of course there are "Kwara" hits referring to names of other entities or mirrors that use the term, but they are not RS for the purpose of common name for this article. I think you'll find very few RS that refer to the state as "Kwara" alone.--Mike Cline (talk) 14:49, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oh, that's because you are using Bing. :) Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:00, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
- A google search Kwara, Nigeria -wikipedia [5] reveal very few hits for "Kwara" alone when referring to the state. Of course there are "Kwara" hits referring to names of other entities or mirrors that use the term, but they are not RS for the purpose of common name for this article. I think you'll find very few RS that refer to the state as "Kwara" alone.--Mike Cline (talk) 14:49, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, Bing, sorry Google. --Mike Cline (talk) 22:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
- Google: [6] returns very similar results. When referring to the geopolitical entity, most sources used Kwara State. --Mike Cline (talk) 22:34, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
- I was only joking. I accept Bing results. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:58, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know how in detail you have examined your Google results, but I had a more detailed look at the first four pages of results, and I don't think it backs up your statement that "when referring to the geopolitical entity, most sources used Kwara State." I haven't gone further than the first four pages, and don't intend to examine all 1.7m results, but here are my rough results from those that refer to the geopolitical entity:
- "Kwara" used exclusively: 18
- "Kwara State" used exclusively: 13 (15 if you include "Kwara State Polytechnic" and "Kwara State University", which are technically names of institutions, not the geopolitical entity)
- "Kwara" and "Kwara State" used interchangeably: 5 — Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:10, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know how in detail you have examined your Google results, but I had a more detailed look at the first four pages of results, and I don't think it backs up your statement that "when referring to the geopolitical entity, most sources used Kwara State." I haven't gone further than the first four pages, and don't intend to examine all 1.7m results, but here are my rough results from those that refer to the geopolitical entity:
- I was only joking. I accept Bing results. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:58, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. FWIW, the Brittanica entry is at "Kwara". Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:00, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose. I am convinced by Good Ol’factory's arguments that the present title is the most common name. In particular, the Brittanica reference is compelling – following quality encyclopedias being one of the main resource suggestions in the article titles policy. Jenks24 (talk) 11:28, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The article Kwarans is categorised in ethnic groups, but provides no evidence that Kwarans have a distinct ethnic identity. Even the citation given for a Muslim majority does not support that statement. I have merged the list of notable people here, and the section on population. The page should now be redirected here. – Fayenatic London 14:00, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
Oppose First off, the article was wrongly categorized as ethnic group in Nigeria which is an aberration. It is illogical for anyone to imagine that Kwarans have a distinct identity. I'm not aware of the categorization. Pinging Eruditescholar who categorized the artcle. Eruditescholar why do you think Kwaran is an ethnic group in Nigeria? Kwaran do not have a distinct ethnic identity as far as I know. Kwarans are people identified with Kwara just as Canadians are people identified with Canada and Lagosians as people identified with Lagos. We usually do not merge pages like this. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 14:27, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Wikicology: It was not EruditeScholar but yourself who put the page Kwarans in the category for ethnic groups,[7]. It is the national article Nigerians which corresponds to Canadians; if we look at the top-level country subdivision, Ontarian does not have its own article but redirects to Ontario. As for Lagosians, it is not a persuasive precedent; from 2007 it was a redirect to Lagos until six months ago when, like Kwarans, The Lagosians was created by you, and then moved to Lagosians. – Fayenatic London 15:38, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- COMMENT: @Fayenatic london: There's Demographics of Ontario, which I believe is the right redirect for Ontarian, just like New Yorkers is redirected to Demographics of New York. Generally, separate articles for the demographics of Countres' subdivisions are quite common on wikipedia, and appropriately so.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 16:01, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comment, Jamie Tubers. @Fayenatic london:, the argument that Nigerians and Canadians are national article is totally irrelevant. Both Kwarans and Lagosians meet WP:GNG, a notability guideline for a stand-alone article. Kwarans and Kwara are independently notable per significant coverages in multiple reliable sources. If you agree that both Nigerians and Canadians should stand alone, there is absolutely no reason why Kwarans and Lagosians cannot stand alone. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 16:40, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Wikicology: you've admitted that it was an aberration to categorise Kwarans as an ethnic group, but have not replied about your unverified statement about the majority religion. And on what grounds are you claiming this meets GNG as a separate topic? What significant coverage? – Fayenatic London 18:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- Nothing forbids demonym from having a stand-alone article. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 20:57, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- I replied to this at Talk:Lagos State. Please reply to my questions above. – Fayenatic London 12:26, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
- Nothing forbids demonym from having a stand-alone article. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 20:57, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Wikicology: you've admitted that it was an aberration to categorise Kwarans as an ethnic group, but have not replied about your unverified statement about the majority religion. And on what grounds are you claiming this meets GNG as a separate topic? What significant coverage? – Fayenatic London 18:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comment, Jamie Tubers. @Fayenatic london:, the argument that Nigerians and Canadians are national article is totally irrelevant. Both Kwarans and Lagosians meet WP:GNG, a notability guideline for a stand-alone article. Kwarans and Kwara are independently notable per significant coverages in multiple reliable sources. If you agree that both Nigerians and Canadians should stand alone, there is absolutely no reason why Kwarans and Lagosians cannot stand alone. Wikic¤l¤gyt@lk to M£ 16:40, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
- As you have not replied to my questions above, and in effect admitted at Talk:Lagosians that the similar article Lagosians was your own original research (which is against Wikipedia policy), I have merged and redirected Kwarans. – Fayenatic London 15:34, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- See also Talk:Lagos_State#Proposed_merge_from_Lagosians. The matter may be regarded as closed. – Fayenatic London 21:02, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Requested move 2 June 2016 edit
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Moved – WP:SNOW close by page mover, considering citations and established Nigerian usage + recent consensus on all other states — JFG talk 11:35, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Kwara → Kwara State – As with all Nigerian states, the form "XYZ State" is more common.
The bold move from "Kwara State" to the US-style "Kwara" on 14 October 2015 after an obscure discussion at Talk:Kwara (disambiguation) was incorrect. A request to move back to the stable title on 27 October 2015 did not reach consensus either way, but was closed incorrectly as confirming the bold move. According to Wikipedia:Article titles#Considering title changes, " If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed." There was no consensus, so the 27 October 2015 result should have been to return to the long-standing title.
Evidence that common usage is "Kwara State" is given by the first page of a search for kwara in Google News Archive [8] which (ignoring the telegraphic headlines) gives:
- The governor of Kwara State, Abdulfatah Ahmed, has congratulated Bukola Saraki on his emergence as Senate President and Chairman of the ...
- The Kwara State Government has risen in defence of the President of the Senate, Bukola Saraki, against claims he received salary for four ...
- Senate President Bukola Saraki, who stoned yesterday with rocks and water sachets by an irate mob at the Eid Prayer Grounds in Ilorin, Kwara State, has accused ...
- The All Progressives Congress, APC, in Kwara State has said the ongoing trial of the Senate President, Dr. Abubakar Bukola Saraki at the ...
- Following the press statement by the Kwara State chapter of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) that its petition to the Economic and Financial Crimes ...
- The Code of Conduct Bureau on Friday alleged that the President of the Senate, Bukola Saraki, moved funds belonging to Kwara State into his ...
- The Nigeria Union of Teachers, NUT, in Kwara says primary school teachers in the state will embark on strike on Monday to protest the ...
- The governor of Kwara state, Abdulfatah Ahmed, has confirmed the release of Hon. Ishola Balogun Fulani and Chief Bode Adekanye by their ...
- The chairmen of all the 16 local government areas of Kwara State, and their deputies, on Friday formally decamped from the Peoples ...
- Governor Abdulfatah Ahmed of Kwara was on Sunday re-elected for a second term after defeating 15 other candidates at the just concluded ...
These are all the results on the first page, no cherry picking. A search for kwara in Google Books [9] gives the following on the first page:
- Kwara: Post-primary Education Policy. Text of an address to the press by the Kwara State Military Governor, D.L. Bamigboye.
- A Kwara'ae spelling list
- Who is who in Kwara State?
- 100 days of Governor Sha'aba Lafiagi in Kwara State
- Water Resources in Kwara State Nigeria
- Recurrent and Capital Estimates of the Government of Kwara State of ...
- Kwara Spotlight: A Quarterly Journal of the Information Division
- Annual report of the Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources Kwara State (Nigeria). Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources
- Information Dissemination in Kwara State of Nigeria
- Kwara State Government Budget in Brief
These are all the results on the first page, no cherry picking. It is clear that "Kwara State" is the common name. The relevant guidelines is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names), which says "By following modern English usage, we also avoid arguments about what a place ought to be called, instead asking the less contentious question, what it is called." In this case, it is called "Kwara State". After moves, discussions and and moves back, 35 out of 36 articles on Nigerian states now again have the standard Nigerian form "XYZ State". There is no justification for a US-style title for this one state. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:08, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support on procedural grounds. The concern at Talk:Kwara (disambiguation) was over the primary topic, and could have been satisfied by redirecting Kwara to Kwara State, rather than renaming the page. – Fayenatic London 15:09, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support Kwara State is the most stable and consistent presentation. Also see the many references brought up in request. werldwayd (talk) 17:51, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Ethnicity of Kwara edit
Hello @BlueGreenWhite:
I don't know what you're upto reverting edits, just for the sake of it; but you should realize Wikipedia is a community, not a one-man show. If your edits are being reverted, the proper way is to discuss, before making further edits.
- You keep removing Yoruba, as the majority ethnicity in Kwara, claiming "There is no reliable source to determine what the primary ethnic group of Kwara state is", meanwhile, there are a zillion publications and journals out there, backing this:
- ".....covered all the Yoruba speaking states including Kwara and Kogi states, located in the lower Niger of the central Nigeria. These two states have the Yoruba people as the dominant population, with 62% and 48% Yoruba in Kwara and Kogi, respectively (National Population Commission, 2006)....Kogi and Kwara states also had Yoruba speakers as majority natives...."
- "The primary ethnic group of Kwara State is Yoruba, with significant Nupe, Bariba Hausa minorities."
- "....shows that public spending in the Yoruba-dominated southwest regions, including capital Lagos and state of Kwara, recieved nearly doubled the sum of public spending for education than the hausa-dominated northern states Kano and Jigawa....."
- "The primary ethnic group of Kwara State is Yoruba, with significant Nupe, Bariba and Fulani minorities"
- ".....As a result, there are now roughly 7 states that can be said to be Yoruba dominated (the South West plus Kwara), 10 states dominated by the Hausa-Fulani (the North West plus Gombe, Bauchi and Adamawa), and 5 states dominated by the Igbo. This gives the three ethnic majority groups a control over 22 of the 36 states......"
- These and more links, refer to Kwara as a Yoruba dominated state. I haven't seen a single link so far, that says Hausa, Fulani, or Bariba is the majority ethnic group in Kwara. If you can find it, then kindly paste it, as both information have to be represented in the article per Wikipedia's policy on neutrality.
- Also, since you are so bent on representing the geopolitical zone in the lead, I'll reword the lead to represent both the geographical location and geopolitical zone.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 02:12, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
Vandalism edit
Due to an ongoing 'debate' on Twitter and some other social nedia platforms, this page has been targeted for vandalism. I will keep its edits on watch TEK1 (talk) 18:27, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Martins feelz is an artiste from Erin Ile, Kwara state. David Abioye too is from Erin ile kwara state, Samuel Olu Alabi (Oluomo of Erin Ile) is a SAN and we can’t find the name here please kindly add them all edit
Kindly add these people and correct where necessary 105.112.160.106 (talk) 16:05, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
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