Talk:Konstantin Tsiolkovsky/Archive 1

Archive 1

Gerald O'Neil

Is he worth mentioning Gerard O'Neill here, at least in the see also, because he had the very same idea, in this case, he stated that mankind must get into the business of building space stations over Earth Orbit, which he called the high Frontier. -- 69.32.201.254 19:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't want to diminish O'Neill's, but his similar ideas post-date Tsiolkovsky's about 50 years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.19.154.192 (talk) 14:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Name in Hungarian

Can anybody explain me why is his name translated in Hungarian? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruthenian (talk • contribs) 21:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Why Hungarian, again?

I just want to ask the same question the user above asked. Why does his name also appear in Hungarian??????????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manguberdi (talk • contribs) 23:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}Can an administrator review the question raised above and take appropriate action. The name in Hungarian was added in this edit, by editor Kumuty (talk · contribs) who otherwise made only a few contributions to Wikipedia. None of the sources anywhere suggest that Tsiolkovsky had a Hungarian ancestry, or had anything to do with Hungary or the Hungarian language. Why should his name appear in Hungarian? Perhaps the editor has confused this with adding a wikilink (but an appropriate wikilink to Hungarian wikipedia already exists). 131.111.8.103 00:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you requesting that it be removed or are you requesting that I try to read that guy's mind:)? Anyway,  Done. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 18:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Photo

I notice Image:Tsiolkovsky.jpg has been listed as lacking any source information on Commons, and so may be deleted if this is not remedied. If anyone knows the source of this photograph, please provide this information. Thanks, -- Infrogmation 16:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The NASA Space Museum exposition mention of Tsiolkovsky

The "Tributes" section of the article has at various times included the assertion:

Exposition at the NASA Space Museum (US Space and Rocket Center at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama) begins with a portrait of Tsiolkovsky.

I do not believe, as this text stands, that it should be included in Wikipedia. First, and primarily, because it is unsourced. It may have once been true. It may be true today. But as it stands, it does not provide readers with a reasonable way to verify the claim. Of course, the Contact Marshall page at nasa.gov could be used but it isn't reasonable for every reader of Wikipedia (there are a lot of us) to do that. Instead, for this claim to be kept in the article, the article needs to cite a source of published information which confirms that the exposition does (or at least did) mention Tsiolkovsky. There are other reasons why the coverage of Tsiolkovsky in Space Museum exposition should not be mentioned in the Wikipedia article. These are secondary, but also important! Every good presentation about the history of spaceflight will start with Tsiolkovsky. Yet we cannot mention them all! What we do not know is whether the mention at the Space Museum is in some way important. Heck, we don't even know if it is a "tribute" at all -- it may well be highly critical of Tsiolkovsky's dreaming! For these reasons I suggest this entry in the "Tributes" section be removed. (sdsds - talk) 22:11, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editprotected}} Please tag the line in the article with {{fact}}. (sdsds - talk) 18:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

 Done Tra (Talk) 20:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Add please the information

{{editprotected}}

Add please information to Biography section:

The problems with hearing of this great person did not prevent him to well understand music. There is his work Origin and an essence of music.In Tsiolkovskys family were a piano and harmonium. Commator 18:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

One of the sources you have provided is a wiki, and the other is in a language I don't understand. Consequently, I cannot verify the reliability of this statement. Please could a couple more editors post here whether they would agree or not that this change is uncontroversial and should take place and/or provide more sources. Tra (Talk) 17:12, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment - It is difficult for many students of the era in which Tsiolkovsky lived to understand the importance of his many contributions. This is largely because, in the West at least, his achievements went largely unrecognized for quite a long period of time. This is most clear in the case of rocketry, where some of his contributions were unknown and were later independently rediscovered in Europe and the USA. It appears this may also be true in music, but the lack of English-language historical coverage of Tsiolkovsy in this field is somewhat frustrating! (sdsds - talk) 19:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Further comment - Regarding the importance of the topic of music in a biography of Tsiolkovsky -- in Rise of Science in Russia 1700-1917 by George Vernadsky, (published in Russian Review, Vol. 28, No. 1. (Jan., 1969), pp. 37-52) Vernadsky devotes two paragraphs to Tsiolkovsky. He makes no mention of music whatsoever. (sdsds - talk) 20:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The Hutchinson Unabridged Encyclopedia devotes a lead sentence and four full paragraphs to its article on Tsiolkovsky. It contains no mention of music. (sdsds - talk) 01:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

It is possible to translate and read K. E. Tsiolkovsky's work on music now. Commator 15:25, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I've been following this debate and wish I could help, but extensive Googling has not been able to find any citable reference to Tsiolkovsky's musical work. I would love to see this article reflect as accurately as possible all aspects of this fascinating and perhaps under-regarded (at least outside of Russia) man, but of course we need to be careful not to include information that cannot be confirmed. In order to move this forward, can Commator provide a fully citable reference to Tsiolkovsky's work on music (full title, publisher, place and date of publication), which might be something that we can build a citable reference on. If Commator is aware of any English language translation of that publication this would be even better. MarkPos 15:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The work is saved by Archive of Russian Academy of Science. By using button Promt at the linked page it is possible to have the page in English. Here is result with some my edits.

Archive of Russian Academy of Science, Moscow

Fund № 555 Tsiolkovsky Konstantin Eduardovich, (1857-1935), the scientist and inventor (the founder of the theory of jet flying devices)

The inventory № 1 Tsiolkovsky's Proceedings

File № 472

Extreme dates of documents: 13.06.1931

Heading: K.E.Tsiolkovsky's article "Origin of music and its essence".

Quantity of sheets: 19

Authenticity/way of reproduction: Typewriting with editing the author.

I will try to translate it to English after receiving of its photocopy. Commator 18:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the information that in Tsiolkovskys family were a piano and harmonium. At the linked page of The State Museum of the history of cosmonautics named by K.E. Tsiolkovsky in Kaluga, Russia it is possible to find following:

Предметы, характеризующие бытовую обстановку семьи Циолковских

В эту музейную коллекцию входят письменный стол ученого, рояль, фисгармония, кресла, приборы, которыми пользовался ученый.

My English translation here:

The subjects which are characterizing home environment of Tsiolkovskys family

This museum collection include the scientist's desk, grand piano, harmonium, seats, devices which the scientist used.

Also I notice that this information, is added to article about K. E. Tsiolkovsky in Russian wiki, where at the section Научные достижения it is possible to find

Проблемы со слухом не мешали этому великому человеку хорошо понимать музыку. Существует его работа «Происхождение музыки и её сущность». В семье Циолковских были фортепиано и фисгармония.

This is Russian version of information which I ask here to add. Commator 18:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I've run the linked PDF file through a machine translator, and the result is intelligible. You can read it at: Talk:Konstantin Tsiolkovsky/Origin of music. I don't have any opinion yet on whether any of this is worth adding to the article, though I doubt it's worth mentioning that there was a piano in his home. - Rainwarrior 03:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts on translation. It is very important work. As for piano at home of Tsiolkovskys family I must specify, that was grand piano which is very rare even for average contemporary russian musician's family. But the having also harmonium was fantastic for his time. Harmonium is instrument which very rare for Russia at all. Russians usually have a piano or bayan-accordion or guitar or balalaika. Who like to play music, or study it, those may have some subset of these usual subjects. Commator 10:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Well??

When is the page going to be unprotected?? It's a too long protection. No Free Nickname Left 15:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind unlocking it. It was locked because Commator and myself could not agree about what material may be admitted to the "tributes" section. I think a proper consensus has been established by now about this, though. - Rainwarrior 05:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Then please unblock it, i have some categories to add him to. No Free Nickname Left 18:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I will unprotect now per request. -- Infrogmation 19:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Contributors who handle antivandalism at the article.

• Ahoerstemeier
• Redvers
• Zharradan.angelfire

Commator (talk) 18:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Tributes Section

Rainwariior! Restore please my tribute in memory of K. E. Tsiolkovsky! Your behavior in this article seems like the desecration of the sanctuary of my nation. Commator 13:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with nationality, and it is quite inappropriate of you to suggest this. I explained quite clearly that what I object to is that you are putting up links to your own website throughout Wikipedia. It doesn't matter if your piece is good, bad, a heartfelt tribute, or whatever; it's still self promotion. This is not the purpose of external links. - Rainwarrior 16:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't confuse others. You try rename my national self-expression to self-promotion because your viewpoint to my contributions is not neutral. More than 100 editors in the article. My link here in section Tributes almost half year. Why you only and only after starting a discussion with me at page Talk:53 equal temperament go here for only to delete my tribute without any discussion here? Are you finding your behavior suitable to WP principles? Commator 14:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

What I am doing is well within the Wikipedia guidelines at conflict of interest and external link (I have mentioned them before, have you read them yet?). "Why you only" is an unanswerable question; I can't speak for others. Ask them directly. - Rainwarrior 16:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Rainwarrior, see my question to all below. Commator 09:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

To all editors of this article. I going to restore in section Tributes external link to my music, which is my own tribute to K. E. Tsiolkovsky who is one of the greatest historical persons of my nation. This music is published at the site which is not my own. The page of this site, that I going to link also is not my own page at this site. My question is: Would somebody delete this link as self-promotion? Commator 09:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

For reference, this is the link I had removed: The Light Of My Betelgeuse. 7 limit 53 EDO approximation in memory of K. E. Tsiolkovsky for alto recorder, choir & Bosanquet Enharmonium by M. Khramov - Rainwarrior 16:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I restore link to my own tribute in memory of K. E. Tsiolkovsky in hope that only Rainwarrior can interpret and delete it as self-promotion. Commator 10:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

In addition to my objection to the self-promotional aspect of adding links to your own website to Wikipedia, this particular link does not reveal any information about Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. It is simply a piece of music you wrote with him in mind; it has no educational purpose, and it is entirely unencyclopedic. - Rainwarrior 07:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

This music is published at the site which is not my own. The page of this site, that I link also is not my own page at this site. The music is my own and it is my own tribute to K. E. Tsiolkovski. The link inform readers that this tribute exist. Commator 11:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Commator, it may not be fair, but you are percieved as having a conflict of interest regarding this article. Have you read much about WP:COI? Have you read WP:COIC? How about WP:SCOIC? (sdsds - talk) 18:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

First of all, when I clicked on the site, a malicious pop-up window came through my pop-up blocker, and I could not close it without force quiting firefox. It was a "Your Scorch needs to be update". Whether legitimate or not, there is no reason a site should put up a pop up window that you cannot close. That said, the edit warring needs to stop. Please, Commator, do not add your link again until you reach consensus here on talk to add your link. If you want my opinion, there is no reason to link to your Geocities cite whatso ever because that is self-published. Linking to the other site is problematic because of the pop-problem, but also because the content isn't encyclopedic. It doesn't contribute to the reader's understanding of Tsiolkovsky. Also, keep in mind WP:COI. Please consider that since you have a vested interest in the link, that you cannot be a neutral party to it. When you keep inserting it after another user removed it, it looks like you are simply promoting yourself, over and over. You have brought the topic to the talk page's attention. Now please, let the community decide whether the link is appropriate or not. If you continue to edit war, you can be blocked.-Andrew c ^[talk] 14:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you think Rainwarrior is community? Commator 17:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I also removed two other points from the Tributes section; one was a reference to a French comic "Aldebaran", which has no English or French Wikipedia article. Likewise with the reference to a band called "The Picture Show". - Rainwarrior 16:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

What about nonverifiable NASA exposition, fictional ship and a space station? Why you decide these tributes may be mentioned? Also read observational all article text. I'm sure you'll find many fragments for your remove-imbecility. Commator 17:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

The works of fiction are quite notable (and have their own encyclopedia articles), so they should be fine to mention here. The picture at a NASA museum might be a bit trivial and is probably unverifiable, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to remove it (I won't object if you think it should go). - Rainwarrior 03:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible read somewhere that the work with tribute must have Wikipedia article? Commator 07:50, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible find somewhere in the article Hinterlands name of K. E. Tsiolkovsky? Commator 08:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Why you interpret the name of the fictional subject as encyclopedic and what educational purpose it have? Commator 09:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

About the picture at a NASA museum, where is your fidelity to principle of removing unverifiable information? Commator 09:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

1. Having a wikipedia article implies that the work is notable. See WP:Notability.

2. No, the name does not appear in the article, but it is very easy to find it in the story that that article is about.

3. I'm not entirely sure that it the mention of these tributes is encyclopedic, but mention of non-notable tributes definitely isn't.

4. Is that a personal question? What do my principles have to do with this article? If you think the NASA museum statement is not worthwhile, please delete it. I don't understand why your question is about me. - Rainwarrior 01:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

1. In other words you can't let me know where I can read that the work with tribute must have Wikipedia article. So restore please the links to Aldebaran and song about K. E. Tsiolkovsky Commator 10:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
2. If you decided the information is good for the article, add please the link to the text of story. Also tell please why you think this information is better then deleted by you. Commator 10:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
3. In other words this unencyclopedic information you like better then unencyclopedic you delete. Definitely all published at the Web may be notable. Commator 10:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I provided you with a link to WP:Notability. The author William Gibson, and the Star Trek television show are both very notable. Webcomics and unsigned bands are not generally notable, and I perceive external links to these things to be promotional and inappropriate. There is a link to the text of the story from the Hinterlands article, but it is also very widely published and should be relatively easy to find in print. I don't know why you think everything on the web must be notable, but it is not; read the Wikipedia policy on this. - Rainwarrior 20:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

May be you need a psychiatrist... Commator 11:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Please maintain a sober tone while perusing wikipedia. Mikkel 12:41, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

My guess on Rainwarrior is very sober. It seems he try here to invent new rule to justify his remove-activity. Commator 13:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I also removed this statement about a star trek card game added by 200.129.43.168 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

Additionally, in the Star Trek Customizable Cardgame, Earth is referred to as the "Cradle of the Federation" a likely homage to Tsiolkovsky's famous quote about space exploration.

Later it was restored by Commator with the words "it is easy to see the" instead of "a likely". The first form, with "likely", suggests that this is just a speculation ventured by 200.129.43.168 in the first place; the second form added by Commator also suggests speculation while additionally demeaning the reader who doesn't think it's so easy to see that this is a homage. My problem is not directly with the wording, however; "cradle" is a word which is commonly used in metaphors such as this one. There is no evidence given here that the creator of this card game (which may not be notable) actually had Tsiolkovsky in mind when choosing this name for a card. This is merely an unverifiable assumption unless some sort of reference to an interview with the creator, or something of this nature can be provided. - Rainwarrior 16:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

In this article and especially in its section Tributes you demonstrate your disrespect for memory of K. E. Tsiolkovsky and its contributors. Also you try refer to guidelines to justify your obscene actions. Is the guidelines the Little Red Book? Are you Hóng Wèi Bīng? I hope it is not so. Please stop your unmannerly removings. Let contributors gently expand and improve the article. Commator 11:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It's disrespectful Tsiolkovsky to just make up facts about him without any evidence. It's disrespectful to everyone in the Wikipedia community to advertise an unsigned band with external links. It's disrespectful to the reader to jam the article with irrelevant facts about non-notable things. - Rainwarrior 16:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Is the goal of the article and Wikipedia community to delete the information on existing tributes to K. E. Tsiolkovsky? Commator 09:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, where those tributes are non notable or unverifiable. "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information; merely being true or informative does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia." (WP:NOT) - Rainwarrior 03:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

We can read also "Disagreements should be resolved through consensus-based discussion, rather than through tightly sticking to rules..." (WP:NOT). In this way I have a question to you at Talk:53 equal temperament#External links to music. My remark at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tunings, Temperaments, and Scales#External links to music is added too. As for tributes I am sure any modest and non notable one is great because it is tribute. So information on any tribute may and must be added to the section Tributes. If it is not so, please delete the section. Commator 17:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, but there is no consensus here, just you and I. - Rainwarrior 17:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Consensus was before your coming to article. After your discourteous deletions we also observe animation of the vandalism... Commator 12:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

"IF these are truly notable, please provide reliable secondary sources which discuss them before restoring them to the article" is the reason to delete information from section by Sdsds.

1. Where are the such "reliable secondary sources" for information on tribute to K. E. Tsiolkovsky at NASA exposition and why they needful for other information.
2. Why are the bad to be "reliable secondary sources" the links of deleted information?
3. Why existing tributes must be notable for the mentioning them in Tribute section?
4. Do you really think the more notable tributes are better then less notable ones for mentioning them in the section Tributes?

Please answer before the next removing. Commator 10:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Commator. You might want to look at WP:OTHERSTUFF. I think it responds to most of your concerns. FYI, on my office window I have a collection of three objects related to spaceflight. One is a coin (CCCP 1 ruble) showing Tsiolkovsky on its face. Having that coin there is my tribute to him. Do you think I should mention my tribute in this article? (sdsds - talk) 22:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Sdsds. It is bad practice for discussion to recommend reading the others opinion. The fact you have a coin with face of K. E. Tsiolkovsky is not the paying tribute to him. If you really pay tribute to this great person, you never delete information on existing tributes from section Tributes of the article about him in Wikipedia. I am afraid you'll ashamed for the reading History page of the article after starting of the real paying. I also hope if you real pay tribute to K. E. Tsiolkovsky, you also will recover each information on existing tributes after somebody delete it. Commator 15:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if this was clear already, but I didn't want to assert that Gibson's story and Star Trek are notable because they have articles, but rather the other way around. Likewise the French comic and the Picture Show band aren't non-notable because they lack articles; they are non-notable because there is no evidence that they are notable (e.g. a secondary source). - Rainwarrior 00:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Rainwarrior. Why you're so sure that only you need delete information? Let please delete what you wish to Sdsds or somebody else. I will discuss my recovering with others and try to explain that each existing tribute must be known for the article readers. Commator 18:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Sdsds did delete the information, and you reverted him as well (Sdsds' edit, your revert). The burden of evidence is on the user who wishes to add or restore controversial material, not the one removing it. You have provided no source that demonstrates that these things are worth mentioning in the article. - Rainwarrior 19:01, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Would like to resolve this issue

I would like to have the reversion-stalemate between myself and Commator resolved. I think the main problem here is that no editors beside myself and Commator have been willing to persist long enough to have a back-and-forth dialogue. The two of us clearly don't agree about what material is worth including in the "tributes" section. Would anyone like to leave a comment and their reasoning here to help establish consensus? So far there has only been one comment and edit from Sdsds, who has not responded to Commator's subsequent revert and comments.

It would be nice to get this resolved and have the protection lifted so that it not hinder the efforts of anyone else who wants to make progress on this article. - Rainwarrior 06:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I have such ideas on this matter. It is incorrectly to interpret imposition of the modest bunch of flowers to famous monument as self-promotion. It is incorrectly to remove modest bunch of flowers from a non-notable admirer, which is placed on the famous monument. Also it is incorrectly to be afraid that very many of such bunches are possible. It is bad that just this matter led to the article blocking during the celebrating of the 150 birthday of K. E. Tsiolkovsky. Commator 15:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

A Wikipedia article is not a monument. "Tributes" should not be added to Wikipedia articles. Commator's additions are clearly inappropriate, and his comments in the discussion do not seem to reflect an understanding or support for the goals of Wikipedia. His suggested additions should not be added. OK, now we have three folks opposing the additions. Anyone else? JesseW, the juggling janitor 05:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Some questions

Hey you all space experts. In Russia, later Soviet Union and now Russia again the science of astronautics is called cosmonautics, so why this term can not be eaqually accepted in English. According to my believes English language is very precise. I do not want to start another Edit Star War, but I just want to give my comment on this. Also all Russian space explorers are called cosmonauts, just to mention. (The article about astronauts at least mentions this fact....), but what we shall do about cosmonautics?

Secondly. Once I have already redirected this page to its proper name. I am a little bit tired of this after all. So let it stay in this lazybone shorthand style. We all recall John F. Kennedy, but we can't recall Konstantin Eduardovich... Why then we have such encyclopedias. But probably I am just swirling the words all around.... Best regards. --XJamRastafire 05:17, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

---

"The basic equation for the rocket movement is named after him"

what is the name of that equation ? A quick Google found

"Tsiolkovsky formula"

"The rocket equation published by Tsiolkovsky in 1903"

"the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation"

"Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation"

"Tsiolkovsky’s equation"

"the Tsiolkovsky-rocket-equation"

"the Ziolkovsky equation"

Is there a "standard" name ?

FWIW, Tsiolkovsky rocket equation isn't a bad name to use for it. (sdsds - talk) 01:06, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

http://informatics.org/museum/tsiol.html http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RocketEquation.html http://ebtx.com/mars/rocketeq.htm http://www.fathom.com/course/21701743/session1.html

I haven't found any reference that supports the exact illness that caused his hearing loss (referred to in the article as scarlet fever). Does someone have that? Joe.julian 05:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The majority of biographical references I have been able to find claim that he wasn't so much homeschooled as he was self taught. Is there a reference to support the homeschooling statement? Joe.julian 05:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Book

Konstantin Tsiolkovsky His Life and Work from A. Kosmodemyansky might provide some new lines in the article?--Stone (talk) 12:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Korolyov visit a "tribute"?

The article currently doesn't mention the story that Sergey Korolyov, when young, traveled to Kaluga specifically to meet Tsiolkovsky. Could that be worked into the main article text (appropriately referenced, of course) or put into the tributes section somehow? (sdsds - talk) 17:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

From the article to 100 birthday of Sergey Korolyov by Valentin Belokon, member of the Cosmonautics Academy of Russia:

...в 1929 году, ему повезло побеседовать с Циолковским, и молодой фанат авиации понимает, что почти нетронутая область ракетостроения ему ближе...

In my translation:

...in the year 1929, he was lucky to have a talk with Tsiolkovsky, and the young fan of aircraft understands, that almost untouched area of rocket production is closer to him ...

As I understand the fact is some more then only paying tribute. Commator 12:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Siddiqi believes that the alleged 1929 visit from Korolev was a propaganda fabrication, and I would agree. At that point in time, Korolev had no interest in space travel. He worked on gliders and was beginning to develop interest in ultra-high altitude aeroplanes. Not until his friendship with Tsander in late 1930 did he start to develop some interest in space travel and rockets. DonPMitchell (talk) 18:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Cosmic Rocket Trains

I believe the current article text may be misleading when it states,

"His most important work, published in 1903, was "Исследование мировых пространств реактивными приборами" (The Exploration of Cosmic Space by Means of Reaction Devices), arguably the first academic treatise on rocketry. Tsiolkovsky calculated that the horizontal speed required for a minimal orbit around the Earth is 8 km (5 miles)/second and that this could be achieved by means of a multistage rocket fueled by liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen."

By placing these two sentences together in this way, the article seems to imply the 1903 publication included a discussion of multi-stage rockets. However a reliable source (NASA) asserts here that it was in 1924, with the publication of "Cosmic Rocket Trains", that Tsiolkovsky discussed multi-stage rockets for the first time. I would like to see the article incorporate the NASA source as the basis for including a mention of "Cosmic Rocket Trains" as being one of Tsiolkovsky's important works. Would this be correct, or did the text of "Exploring Space with Reaction Devices" mention multi-stage rockets in 1903? (sdsds - talk) 01:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Tsiolkovsky makes no mention of rocket stages in 1903 or in the 1914 revised version. As far as I know, Goddard was the first to propose the idea in his 1914 patent. DonPMitchell (talk) 18:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Oberth, Goddard

I added some information from Asif Siddiqi's new paper on the influence and correspondence between Soviet rocket pioneers and Robert Goddard. A German user named Matthead has added back the old material (presumably to restore the multiple references to Hermann Oberth), but the current state of the article is rather messy and redundant now. DonPMitchell (talk) 17:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a good online reference: http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exploration/russian_space_dream.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by DonPMitchell (talk • contribs) 17:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

It is very impolite to attack me in such a manner, and to include my name in the section headline from where I remove it. It was your edit that deleted how Zander had rediscovered and promoted Tsiolkovsky, and also deleted "and Oberth's", thus claiming that von Braun had been influenced by Tsiolkovsky rather than Oberth. Thus, I reverted, but re-added the part added by you. -- Matthead  Discuß   01:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

My apologies Matthead. I realize now that you are very concerned with documenting the role of Germans in space history, and I stepped on your toes as we say. I was trying to avoid giving the impression that Oberth and Tsiolkovsky were THE TWO people who influenced rocketry. Certainly Goddard would belong on that list, and if you read contemporary articles you see that E. Pelterie was also a big influence (Tsiolkovsky writes about him at length in 1914) but largely forgotten today. DonPMitchell (talk) 18:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be concerned to make amends abroad for the fact that Americans ridiculed Robert H. Goddard. BTW, there is the article Robert Esnault-Pelterie.-- Matthead  Discuß   21:09, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I am writing a book on the Soviet space program and have read the original works by Tsiolkovsky, Crocco, Esnault-Pelterie, Goddard and many others. I just returned from Munich, where I was at the Deutsches Museum looking at documentation there. When I see problems on Wikipedia pages, I take time to try to fix them. At best, that is a thankless job. At worst, one encounters random people who just make trouble. DonPMitchell (talk) 03:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

In general, this article needs work. Look at the huge article in the Russian version to see how much more information could be added to this page. DonPMitchell (talk) 18:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Historical mistransliteration, which has become standard

The last name of this famous scientist has been historically mistransliterated from Polish Ciołkowski into Russian, which should be Тёлковский (Tyolkovsky) or more naturally Телковский (Telkovsky). Polish cie, cia, cio, ciu correspond Russian те, тя, тё, тю. Word "ciało" is translated into Russian as "тело", аlthough it's pronounced as ['tɕowo] in modern Polish--Atitarev (talk) 22:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

He was half polish half Russian, but he nevertheless signed his own name "Циолковский". He was born in Russia. Is there any evidence that he ever wrote in Polish or spelled his name in Polish? I question if it is appropriate to give the Polish spelling in the opening sentence.

I think when someone is born in a country and is a citizen of that country, we can not go back and claim later that they were actually German or Polish or whatever. Imagine what would happen if we did this with American scientists, it would be completely confusing and inconsistant. DonPMitchell (talk) 18:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The Russian wiki article has a long section about the history of his father's family. It was apparently a legend in his family that Tsiolkovsky was Cossack in origina and his ancestors had fought with or were related to Severyn Nalyvaiko. Someone who can read Russian better than me should look at it. DonPMitchell (talk) 04:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Pop cult section

According to WP:IPC, these points might be pop cult cruft. I removed two game references that couldn't meet any points under WP:IPC's Good Bad section. I would like to debate if any of these references should be included according to the essay. --OrbitOne 19:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

• A fictional ship, the К. Э. Циолковский (K. E. Tsiolkovsky), was named after him for the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation. The episode it appeared in was entitled "The Naked Now". A copy of the dedication plaque of that vessel, with a rough rendering of Tsiolkovsky's Cyrillic name, was seen in the ship's set dressing. (the artist mistakenly used "З" instead of "Э" for the middle initial, and "п" instead of "л" in the last name).
• A lunar station is named Tsiolkovsky in Stanisław Lem's novel Tales of Pirx the Pilot, story "The Conditional Reflex".
• A space station is named Tsiolkovsky 1 in William Gibson's short story Hinterlands.
• In the movie Far Side of the Moon, the main character is doing research based on Tsiolkovski's theories.
• Hachirota Hoshino's father quotes Tsiolkovski in the seventeenth episode of the anime series, Planetes.

Means of living

What did he live off? It's not that the Tsar had a well-funded rocket programme. Did he teach? Was he a land-owner? An inheritance?

He was a Teacher —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.97.140.62 (talk) 17:44, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Needs a lot of work

I deleted a couple paragraphs that simply had nothing to do with Tsiolkovsky. This article needs serious work, probably should be rewritten. Take a look at the amazing Russian page on Tsiolkovsky. Not only is this article too short, it is filled with incorrect information. DonPMitchell (talk) 23:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the Russian page is much, much, much more thorough:

google translate

Rememberway (talk) 16:12, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Quote

I think we could add at least one quote, probably "Earth is the cradle of humanity, but one cannot live in the cradle forever."Mercurywoodrose (talk) 08:53, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't those normally go to Wikiquotes (wikiquote:Konstantin Eduardovich Tsiolkovsky)? --illythr (talk) 10:44, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

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William Tetly

A variant of File:Tsiolkovsky.jpg, viz. File:Tema 98 1133796731 3932682.jpg, is used in the Portuguese article pt:William Tetly. Could somebody who speaks also Portuguese please try to resolve this issue?

• Possibly, Tetly was another name for Tsiolkovsky?
• Or the image on pt.wikipedia shows Tsiolokovsky, not Tetly?
• Or the image on en.wikipedia (i.e. here) shows Tetly, not Tsiolkovsky?

I can't think of a fourth possibility. - Jochen Burghardt (talk) 05:42, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

How's this for a fourth possibility: a Portuguese hoax article? I can't read Portuguese, but the Portuguese article seems to bear no relation to the English article William Tetley (different spelling; evidently a different individual). I find the phrase Rádio Propulsionado a Biodisel rather strange; (Google translates it "Radio Propelled Biodiesel".) there are photos of radios, but "propelled" by Biodesel?

• I note the Portuguese article tag says, per Google Translate: "This page does not cite reliable and independent sources, which undermines their credibility (since July 2008). Please add references and insert them correctly in the text or in the footer. Content without sources may be removed."
• Tetly and Tsiolkovsky were not the same individual.
• I highly doubt the picture is not of Tsiolkovsky, and think it's most likely either a good-faith error or a hoax on the Portugese side.
• I ran the entire article through Google Translate. The first section reads just like a mediocre, poorly-written and unverified wiki article (even allowing for the expected syntax errors), but the section on the biodiesel-fueled radio is just LOL funny; I can't help but suspect that's a hoax, but maybe not. JustinTime55 (talk) 15:46, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

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why is his polish name is given?

I see no reason for that. Its like writing Barack Obama's name in the Zulu language of africa in his wikipedia article or something like that.

could he talk Polish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.95.155.145 (talk) 20:38, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

he had polish origin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.196.185.126 (talk) 18:05, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

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