Talk:Kim Possible (character)/Archive 1
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Ann vs. Anne
According to kp tv tome, Kim's middle name is Ann, not Anne.
- IMDB also agrees Christy Carlson Romano ProveIt 01:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Vigilante? Uh... don't think so
This character was until recently listed in the "Fictional vigilante" category. And while, technically, she does seem to operate without regard to the law in some respects, she doesn't really qualify. For one thing, unlike every other character there (pretty much), she doesn't take vengeance. She's more "foil this plot, then hand over criminals to the police". I have removed the listing. -- Supermorff 11:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually, a vigilante is anybody who believes that they are doing what is right/needs to be done in oder to help the police or replace the police. She fits into well this category. Think vigilance, not vengeance.
Many comic superheroes are vigilante because they aren't under the jurisdiction of federal or state authorities.
perfectblue 13:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Love Interest
Kim Possible's official boyfriend is Senor Senior Jr. (literally Mr. Senior Jr.), and she won't break up with him even in any episode, but she likes Ron Stoppable just for a friend. --Zachkudrna18@yahoo.com
- Uhh...Senor Senior Jr. IS NOT Kim's boyfriend!!! A possible love interest is only mentioned in the episode Animal Attraction when it is revealed that Senor Senior Jr. is Kim's soulmate. =D Jumping cheese 06:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Should the very brief show of feelings of Kim for Ron in the episode Emotional Sickness (where a "moodulator" is attached onto Kim) count in her love interests? --58.69.21.110 05:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Sure...it wouldn't hurt to mention something about the moodulator. =) Jumping cheese Cont@ct 06:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not against mentioning it, so long as it is noted somewhere that the feelings were artificially induced. Kim does end up with Ron, but the moodulator artificially created what she was feeling at that given time. She'd probably of crushed on Brick if he'd been the one standing in front of her when it was activated.
- perfectblue 08:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Dave The Barbarian
I barely remember there being a promo like that, but even if it's true, they most likely did that as a joke, just like how Disney "paired" Dave and Lizzie McGuire. --Erased Paper 03:23, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Us at RS.net have decided that this was fake and I have removed it. -- Mukiox
And yet, some idiot put it back in. People like this person are going to kill Wikipedia someday. I'll just delete it again.-- Someguy-021
It is back again but I deleted it. I don't know who keeps putting it back in. -- Rosepuff12 00:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Grade A student?
I sujest deleting the Grade A sudent part, for the series gave us confirmation that although Kim can manage her time quite well between saving the world and school work, there are many episode and quotes that incidate Kim's a mediun grade student.
In one episode Ron says she is a grade a student, but that's concerning latim and nothing more. In other episodes it is revield to us that Kim doesn't have high grades in any subject(Talent show if I'm not mistaken) and in another Kim is shown not to be able to make an assigment thus he is given a zero, this shows that there are many times when she can't have good grades because of her occupations. There is proof in the series that gives us this, and there is no statement besides the one concernig latim that says A grades. Most likely Kim's grades change from mediun to high and even sometimes low but they are mostly medium. Thorius Maximus 12:33, June 27 2006
- In Naked Genius, Kim pulled of an A- in math, even though she had to cram during a mission in the Congo River. I've never seen Kim recieve a grade lower than an A, except in Car Trouble, and that was only Driver's Ed. =) Jumping cheese Contact 23:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
The Naked Genius one was a dream. --Erased Paper 20:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
It is true, it was a dream. In Hidden Talent Ron said that Kim's grades weren't high, and also in the episode when that director makes a movie about Kim and Ron, Kim gets a 0 because she didn't read a book she had to. I think this shows that although Kim is able to get good grades, there are many tiome in which her occupations make it impossible for her to have enough time for school work and she, just like anyone else, needs a considerable amount of time to practice and work on school things. I think that these situations in the series are good examples of this. --Thorius Maximus 14:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- Whoa, nice research! I guess Kim isn't a grade A student. =) Jumping cheese Contact 19:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
The subject of Kim's grades is never mentioned in Hidden Talent. I think that "And the Molerat Will be CGI" scene was meant as a joke and for the sake of the plot. Also, Kim does a lot of after-school activies and such ("Mind Games"), so I'd imagine that Kim did extra credit assignments for Barkin's class(es). --Erased Paper 23:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- Correct me if I'm wrong but in Hidden talent Ron says something similar to this, Ron: "You're going to let Bonnie win and you don't even have high grades!?" Kim: "I will win against Bonnie and I will reach the high grades, I'm Kim Possible , I can do anything!" Concerning the "And The Molerat Will be CGI", I don't think it is a joke because it content was clear, Kim simply didn't have enough time to read the book. But if I put things your way, then i nthe end Ron's low grades are even a greater joke than the situations when Kim doesn't succeed in school, because they are deliberatly much more comical than Kim's ones. Don't forget that both Kim and Ron have approximately the same free time, it is true that Kim has may extra curricular activities but don't forget that it was deliberably shown(in one episode) that her too many extracurricular activies give her no time for school work and even also for other activities as she was incapapble of doing even a tenth of what she had to do, sometimes Kim's attitude puts her in situations that is simply impossible for her to succeed. My final opinion is that it is clear that Kim is not a grade A student and even has problems with free time and in the end she is sometimes unable to do even a quarter of the things she was supposed to do. Thorius Maximus 17:00 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Re: Hidden Talent: Ron said the high notes, as in singing. --Erased Paper 17:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
- You sure? Okay, can't argue with you about that, but concerning the free time, there is proof that in many situations she doesn't have enough time to do it all, if not even a portion of what she was supposed to do. Her extracurricular activities amy give her extra credit but the time issue still remains. But, from what the series have shown us, is don't think Kim's grades are always high. Thorius Maximus 14:19 18 July 2006 (UTC)
- "You know, I don't get you, K.P. You're a straight 'A' student, and yet you can't grasp the closest path from chem to Latin." I still don't see how this would apply only to her Latin grades. "Straight A student" usually refers to one who gets "A"s in all of her (or his) classes. I think this quote is definitive proof that Kim is indeed a straight "A" student. —OneofThem(talk)(contribs) 23:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Not always, there are episodes when she doesn't get good grades for instance in car trouble(at the begininng), the episode when they make the movie about Kim and Ron in which it shows that her mission sometimes interviene with her school life, in cooking, etc. What I am trying to say it that to write a statement that she is a grade A student is something incorrect and it's a simplist analysis not to mention absolute, so please don't simplify your opinions. Kim's grade may change from time to time and that quote is simply applied to the moment, but if you want to ignore the entire series and write a biased opinion them be my guest. Thorius Maximus 22:18 23 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but no matter how much you analyze the show, there's no denying the aforementioned quote. At least mention in the article that she's a straight "A" student (instead of grade "A"), or maybe mention that Ron says she's a straight "A" student; then it won't be disputable. —OneofThem(talk)(contribs) 17:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- The bar is set at different levels in different schools, but don't cheerleader need to maintain a good GPA in order to stay on the squad? and I can't see Kim accepting a walk either.
- perfectblue 18:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Just to clear things up, Kim's profile on the official Disney channel website now states expliciteely that she is a straight A student [[1]
perfectblue 17:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Kim's Age
Is Kim's age static, or dynamic? The screen shot of the title section indicate that Kim is a sophomore in high school, but the series never changed the title section, so Kim might have aged.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jumping cheese (talk • contribs)
Well, Steve Lotor did say that she was going to be 18 in the upcoming Season 4, so it's assumable that each new season advances her age a year. 69.148.77.47 21:42, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Someguy21
Wait a minute. If Kim is 18, does this mean she is going to be a senior in high school, in Season 4? -Rosepuff12 22:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, if Kim is 18, then she will be a senior in high school. Would that automatically end the series after season 4? =D Jumping cheese Contact 02:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Hopefully not. They could always do a spin-off on her and Ron's college years. Someguy-021 18:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Someguy-021
I can't actually see Kim being 18 for anything more than scene set in the future because of audience demographics. Traditionally, characters in TV franchises (in the US), who are written for children to look up to, are never more than 2 years older than their target audience, and I can't see 16-17 year olds watching Kim Possible.
Besides:
1) we know that she's about 14 (did drivers ed) in season 2, which would make her about 16 in season 4 presuming 1 season = 1 year, not 18. 2) Once a character gets to 15, sexualization becomes an issue with parents. It's one thing for 14 year old Kim to kiss Ron, it's another thing for 18 year old Kim to do it. I can't see Disney risking the wrath of conservative parents by having a headline cartoon couple who are actually old enough to have sex.
perfectblue 14:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
As it shows in the pictures Kim begins the show as a Sophmore in highschool. Based on US typical ages this places her between the ages of 17-18 depending on when her birthday is. If she was 5 before the cut off date, which i believe is Sept, then she would have begun Kindergarden at 5 and therefore be 17 when she reaches her senior year. If, however, she was born after the cut off date she would began at 6 and would be 18 at the start of her senior year. (that is assuming of course she didn't start early or start late.) I believe it was noted somewhere that the first two seasons took place in the same year and the thirds seaon (which i believe began after the first movie which showed her starting a new school year) shows her to be in her Junior year (hence the reason she's going to a prom) thus adding a year to her age.
So assuming she didnt start school early and since i believe the producers mentioned this will be her senior year, Kim will have to be either 17 or 18. I suppose we could use the fact she took driver's ed to help us, even though state laws vary on this issue i believe most arre fairly similar. Unfortunately we dont know definitavely which state she comes from. (though many signs seem to point to colorado.) If colorado is in fact her home state, then according to colorado law, she would have to be at least 15 to take driver's ed and 15 1/2 to get a permit. (www.dmv.org/co-colorado/drivers-ed.php Colorado DMV) If this is the case that we can probably say she's a 15 year old sophmore (which poitns to a 17 senior). after all if she was 15 her freshman year, why would you wait a year to learn to drive? although i suppose one could make the arguement she was waiting for Ron. Still i believe based on that info that she will be a 17 year old senior (and hence her birthdate is sometime before the sept cut of date.) --Chikiko 19:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't realize the significance of the picture so I didn't look closely enough at the last line of text.
I stand by what I said though, in general it is highly unusual to have an 18 year old girl as a girl-next-door style lead character in a US cartoon with a mixed audience. Generally speaking, its only usually cartoons aimed at boys with an entirely adult/college age cast that have 15+ year old girls in significant roles, and then most of them are based on either Marvel or DC comics.
I wonder how well an older Kim will work, though looking at the picture, she still looks about 15.
perfectblue 09:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- It's confirmed in the Season 4 episode Ill Suited that Kim is a senior in high school now. So that makes her 17 or 18 years old. =D Jumping cheese Cont@ct 21:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I was reading this interview with Bob Schooley & Mark McCorkle when I read an interesting quote from Schooley:
| “ | Previously, we kept it purposely vague what grade they were in. The sharp-eyed will notice that in the main title now, it says, "High School Senior" where it used to say, "High School Sophomore." (laughs) | ” |
Hmmmmm...so I got a screenshot of the Season 4 main title and sure enough, Kim's grade changed to Senior. =D Jumping cheese Cont@ct 09:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Catholic
Is Kim Catholic?!? She's under the Catholic category. I have never seen any episodes that mentioned that Kim was Catholic (and I've seen them all). =D Jumping cheese Contact 02:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
It's mentioned she's (as well as all her family are) one in every episode that mentions Ron's a jew DaffyDuck619
It's never mentioned. --Erased Paper 01:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- So Kim is not Catholic? I'm kind of confused here. =) Jumping cheese Contact 03:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- Kim IS A Catholic, It IS mentioned (whether it be said, or some sort of action) in every episode that mentions Ron's a jew DaffyDuck619
- Are you sure? Is there a specific episode that mentions that Kim is Catholic (no matter how subtle)? =) Jumping cheese Contact 22:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm absolutely positive that it is never mentioned in any episode that Kim is a Catholic. I myself am Catholic, and I definitely would've remembered something like that (and I've seen every episode countless times). If she's under the Catholic category—I don't see it—then it's probably because Christy Carlson Romano, who does her voice, is Catholic (or at least her article once claimed this). —OneofThem(talk)(contribs) 01:25, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
It would help if you could provide an episode number and a description of a scene. Personall,y I doubt that she is
1) I've don't recall seeing her family doing anything Christian, not even saying grace. (Christmas and thanksgiving don't count as holiday specials are universal, even for secular characters) 2) This is Disney. Disney seldom have religious character. Doing so could effect ratings by offending somebody.
perfectblue 10:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Interview
I readded the content: the point stated is very specific, that the creators acknowledge the problem and agree it has to be handled delicately. Since that point also refers to an interview, that interview has to be cited appropriately. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
The thing is that that section already talked about that interview. So, by saying "Bob Schooley and Mark McCorkle agree", it's really saying ""Bob Schooley and Mark McCorkle agree with Bob Schooley and Mark McCorkle". --Erased Paper 20:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'll merge the info together. =) Jumping cheese Contact 20:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Kigo
Just to note, removing Kigo purely because it was fanfic was wrong. If they are notable, fan-views and audience reactions are permissible under certain conditions. However, the way in which the section was written did not meet those conditions because it violated WP:OR, so deleting it was right. If people want to include Kigo or other fan views (such as shipping between Ron and Kim), they will need to use a third party source that passes WP:V and WP:RS.
perfectblue 10:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I notice that perfectblue removed actually true things (not WP:OR) about Kim's character, such as how she goes into a frenzy, cheats and even lies to get what she wants. Is this because we don't like seeing the bad side of Kim? I think it makes her more human. Can we please put it back in? It doesn't violate any policies and the actions were episode verified! (also, those were not Bonnie's posters she was pulling down).
Kim isn't actually a perfect person.=CJK= 19:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
(p.s. I see now that it was left in, but is WAY less prominent than it used to be. I still think that part should be expanded) =CJK= 19:13, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
While your edits aren't exactly WP:OR I changed them because some of them were out of context or were reading too much in to little things. Please remember that Kim Possible is a long running franchise consisting of comic books, an animated series, and several video games. As such, her profile should be written in regards to the character as a whole, and those things that are inconsistent should be noted as being inconsistent (see telling lies below) or not at all (some aren't worth mentioning as they were a script quirk to get a laugh etc).
For example, Shego made a one off complement about Kim's choice in boys in "Blush" but it would be a mistake to say that it showed that this meant anything in relation to her and Kim's respective personalities.
It would be easier if we addressed things one by one.
- 1a) The "Frenzy" from Queen Bebe was actually the result of her going "hypersonic" from wearing the super sneakers for too long, not the result of her personality.
- 2a) The lies that she told in "October 31st" were intended as a one off incident for that episode (note that everybody was shocked that she lied). It was clearly stated that it was out of character and that she hadn't lied like that before so it should not be included as part of her personality unless it is to show that she rarely lies. It should also be noted that the script specifically states that she felt bad about telling lies. The stress caused by the lies that she told was actually a plot element (it triggered the battle armor, and was greater than the stress that she felt on missions, which shows how bad she felt about it).
- 3a) You also said that she lied to get what she wanted, she actually lied to avoid hurting other people's feelings. As stated at the end, she would have been allowed to do any of the things that she did.
- 4a) You said that she looses patience with things that undermine her as a hero, and cheats for the same reason. I don't recall her ever giving up on anything in the hero front, and she cheated as part of a two way tit-for-tat campaign in a popularity contest not as part of her hero persona. Your wording implies otherwise (the poster thing is also a teen comedy cliche for a school election, see Saved by the bell, Sabrina the teenage witch etc. So it doesn't mean very much for her as a character).
- 5a) Everything that happened in "Return to Wannaweep was Tit-for-Tat and was instigated by Bonnie.
- 6a) "Arrogance", can't remember if this was you who used this word, or somebody else but..... It's inaccurate. Arrogance implies that she's throwing her success in somebody else's face. If she regularly said it to Bonnie's face after showing her up, then it would be valid, but she most commonly uses it to reassure others that everything is going to be OK, or when her own confidence has taken a knocking and she either needs to remind or reassure herself (for example, she usually says it to Ron in situations like facing up to having to fix that beat up car in "Car Alarm" and isn't really confident that she can do it).
- 7a) Rivalry. While there is room for supposition, we must tick with obvious cannon. The rivalry between Kim and Bonnie can be summed up by their confrontation at the beginning of bonding (Bonnie had wondered off to make a phone call just as the routine required her to catch Kim, resulting in Ki nearly being injured) it went something like Kim What exactly is your problem with me? Bonnie: Oh, it's all about you, isn't it. Bonnie wants the limelight, and Kim is always in it.
The Image is still there, it is the same size and in roughly the same position. The only thing that really changed was the title. Before it didn't explain what she was cheating at.
perfectblue 09:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Direct proof in the series clearly show examples of arrogance from Kim. Take for instance the episodes Car Trouble or Hidden Talent, when Kim angrily refused to even accept she could even fail, her image of herself at that point was that failure was impossible for her. If this isn't considered an example of arrogance them arrogance is a concept that does not exist.
Sometimes it's not a matter that if she can or not because of lack of self confidence, it's a matter that she simply can't. Take for instance the situation in car alarm, independently of her lack of confidence she couldn't have fixed the car thus she would have used the car in that old state, fortunately for her the twins did all the work. Depending on the situation she may or may not react arrogantly, yet there have been cases when she does act arrogantly and others when she simply shows insecurity, strangely most of the times she shows insecuraty are the exact situations when she really can't do it.
ThoriusMaximus 19:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Good point, Thorius. In regard to what you said on my talk page PB97 (=CJK=), She actually IS arrogant, even if she believes that her successes aren't a big deal FOR HER (the truth hurts). Let's take a look at your bullet points above:
1b) The frenzy I was referring to in Queen bebe was BEFORE she got the shoes. I may be stupid, but even I can tell the difference between a frenzy and moving at supersonic speed.
2b) She didn't just lie in october 31, she also lied in royal pain when she sabotaged other people's posters. This may seem like a little thing, but it takes a special kind of mentality to commit that kind of vandalism. I'm not kidding.
3b) Did she REALLY lie to protect people's feelings? I guess... but I'm not so sure.
4b) CHEATING: royal pain GIVING UP: so the drama near the end, when she's captured. TIT-FOR-TAT: There is no excuse for KIM POSSIBLE to engage in a tit-for-tat campain if she's without serious flaws; IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! Whether it's with Bonnie (in every episode she's in, btw) or that prince guy or whoever!
5b) Kim started that tit-for-tat campaign in Return to WW. Watch the episode very carefully and you'll see that Bonnie did nothing to start it! Unless you count snoring... you don't, do you?
6b) that car alarm clip is valid evidence, I think, that she gets deeply (kinda creepily) irritated when she can't do something. Yes, I suppose she uses her "arrogance" to keep people calm, but what puzzles me is situations like that car alarm thing... who was she trying to keep calm? only herself.
7b) Okay, but isn't the following interpretation also valid? KIM What is your problem with me? BONNIE Oh, it's always about you isn't it? Kim does not know that she loves taking the limelight all for herself, and Bonnie is giving her a clue.
BOTTOM LINE: it's good that Kim has weird flaws, because (A) most teenage girls do, (B) it makes the show interesting without going over people's heads, and (C) it makes it easier for us to identify with Kim. Don't you get the feeling that sometimes people WANT kim to lose? that people like Ron way more than Kim?
P.S. I edited the thing with a horizontal bar so that we can see who says what. Also, I numbered your bullet points, PB97, so that pple can keep track of what I'm saying.
=CJK= 21:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
1c) Where was the frenzy. I saw her storm off in a huff and say that Bonnie was the bossiest person in the world, but that's not a frenzy. Frenzy would be kung fuing her. Besides, anybody would be react like that to Bonnie, she's written to press people's buttons and to get them mad. It's her whole purpose in the script.
2c) Campaign poster vandalism has been a part of high school life since Vietnam, it's not nice, but it's practically normal and does not represent a character flaw. It was also used as a two part cliche A) she missioned the vandalism (like when she missioned getting into the Mall to meet Hirotake during "Exchange") making it a plot device not a personality device B) As above, it's a cliche of most high school election in the US.
4c) Kim's spirit was broken in "So the Drama" which was Drakken's plan. Again, tit-for-tat is a cliche, it doesn't mean much. It's two people giving as good as they get, don't tell me you've never done this with a sibbling?. Kim also doens't go tit for tat in every episode. Take "Kimitation Nation" when she meets Bonnie outside the Beuno Nacho and gets a roasting from her, "Bonding" when Bonnie's insulting her on the phone, drags her along the street on Brick's motorbike and tips a drink over her in the theater, or "Job Unfair" when Bonnie is constantly digging at her over Hank the janitor, but Kim didn't even offer a witty comeback.
5c) Bonnie started it by dibing the top bunk.
6c) She's a teenage girl. Her hopes were raised when she though that she was going to get the good car, only to have them dashed when her well meaning but deeply shortsighted father gave her the lemon. I think that you'd react badly in the same situation. Besides, it's already been established that car mechanics bore and frustrate her. She's trying to psych herself up to a task that she doesn't want that's only reward would be a car that she sees as being a social millstone.
7c) immediately before hand Bonnie was Kim's spotter. Bonnie took a personal call on her cell (something trivial) which resulted in Kim hitting the ground hard and almost injuring herself. That isn't the action of a nice girl.
Yes she is flawed in her own way, but I think that most of the elements that you have pointed out are over reading particularly in relation to Bonnie. Bonnie is written to be mean, and reacting to meanness isn't a flaw in Kim's personality.
I also maintain that for something to be arrogance, it must be done at a time of confidence. All of the examples that you have used were done at a time when she had lost her confidence. Giving yourself a pep talk isn't arrogant.
perfectblue 08:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
"I also maintain that for something to be arrogance, it must be done at a time of confidence. All of the examples that you have used were done at a time when she had lost her confidence. Giving yourself a pep talk isn't arrogant."
Yes it is, it all depends on how you express yourself. Kim sometimes literaly says at people's faces with a strong sence of denial, anger and a constant feeling of overconfidence and so she expresses herself by saying angrily "I can do anything". Again I say, her mental state at these times is of anger, denial, along with an exagerated sence(and sometimes irrational) of overconfidence. To emphasise this even more more, they put Ron responding right after Kim makes her overconfident statement saying things such as "and failing, see logic!?", Ron's paper in these situations when Kim makes an overconfidence and sometimes arrogant statement is to make Kim wake up to her sences.
ThoriusMaximus 16:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Thorius has it right with Kim (not Ron, so much, but keep debating about it you guys- it's fun). Which is the easier explanation: That she is arrogant or that she is trying to raise the confidence of all the people around her? For gods' sakes, she exclaims that she can make a car in that clip! I'm going to take into consideration what Thorius said above into #'s 6 and 7.
1d) Kim was doing 4 different projects at once, including some we didn't get a full glimpse of. Her dad gave her a talk on how she has too much work, AND her mom stops her to tell her to have breakfast! Then, she shows up in a mess at the party talk thing? She was not balanced in that episode.
2d) Campaign poster vandalism IS a cliche... but how many people actually do it? Does Kim usually like cliches? (DRAKKEN Won't you join us for... KIM [rolls eyes] ...for lunch?) Would a cartoon hero do something like this? I've never seen it before, and I, unfortunately, watch a lot of cartoons. It's not normal, and that's all there is to it.
3d) I noticed you didn't respond to my previous #3 above. Like I said, when she lies, it's to get what she wants.
4d) You have a point: she doesn't always engage in tit-for-tat, in fact, she can be really nice... but when she does do tit-for-tat, doesn't it kinda scare you?
5d) Jeez you'd have to sensitive to see "claiming the tob bunk" as starting a fight!
6d) She might be psyching herself out, but as Thorius pointed out, EVEN RON gets annoyed with her level of self-confidence!
- "Who ISN'T the boss of me?" -sink or swim
- "and failing [too]... see, logic?" -car trouble
7d) Bonnie is a very troubled character (and I'm sticking to my theory that she's been abused by her older siblings). She may even be a sociopath, which taint normal people, but not people who are surrounded by love like Kim is.
8d) A normal adult pep talk sounds like this: "I can do it", and abnormal adult pep talks sound like this: "I must not fail!" "I won't dissapoint you, mommy!" and "I CAN DO ANYTHING!" I prefer to think that she's just being arrogant. =CJK= 18:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The main use for the "I can do anything" phrase or the "Everything's possible for a Possible" phrase is not arrogance but to give confidence but in a situation such as when Kim finds herself not succeeding in something she tends to use these phrases more arrogantly, since she is used to win and even to some extent she does see the phrase "I can do anything!" or "Everything's possible for a Possible!" as if they were really real unfortunately when reality hits she does takes it the hard way most times although in situations with a lesser impact on her she acts simply by showing lack of confidence not arrogance and of course it is Ron's obligation to help her, however if she acts exagerately and arrogantly then Ron must put her feet back on Earth.
ThoriusMaximus 18:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, lets take things wider. What Kim is showing is typical "Type A" pride. A strong belief in herself, and frustration when she can't do something. I contend that this isn't arrogance as arrogance normally accompanied by disdain for/belittlement of others. When Kim says "I can do anything", does she meant "I can do something that you can't" or "I'm better than you", or does she mean "I believe in my own abilities"?
1e) While you might be able to tell the difference between supersonic speed and "Frenzy" I can't always tell what exactly it is that you are referring to. Based on the dictionary definition of "Frenzy" (extreme mental agitation; wild excitement or derangement), I can't agree with you. Equally, she's an overachiever, working herself frantic maybe, frenzy no.
2e) Campaign poster vandalism and election smears are a standard teen drama/comedy plot element. See Sabrina the teenage Witch, Saved by the bell, Buffy the Vampire slayer, Dawson's creek. In that episode Kim was put in a stereotype role based on a popular culture image. And yes, it happens in real life too. Though not usually "spy style".
3e) Kim lied to avoid hurting people's feelings. She made out that was doing something that she might be obliged to do but didn't really want to do, and she then got caught up in a cliche web of lies. It was specifically stated that it was out of character and the entire episode was basically a "moral message episode" (like that episode of the Simpsons where Lisa lies so that she can go to the museum, you wouldn't say that she was a character based lier, would you?). I've modified the include on the page to make clear that it happened but that it was a once off.
4e) Given that Kim doesn't always respond, and that she could easily kill Bonnie if she so desired, but rarely does more than try to outdo her, I think that "Engages in the occasional bout of Tit-for-Tat" is acceptable by all here.
5e) Again, typical teen drama/comedy cliche. It's like squeezing the toothpaste in the middle, it's a red rag to a bull in an already tense situation. Besides, wasn't Bonnie winding her up something awful over the routine during the opening scenes of the episode?
8e) Again, was she putting anybody down, or just trying to pick herself up?
perfectblue 10:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry but your are running from the subject. Evidence is direct and simple, no need to complicate or present information which is irrelevant and that technically is something that does not exist in the series.
If Kim sometimes responds overconfidently and in a state of denial towards people(Ron) then it is arrogance , period.
ThoriusMaximus 14:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
In my book, less than 1 minute of debatable arrogance in a series that's going into its fourth season means that this is the exception rather than the rule. When dealing with fictions we need to show a sustainable correlation within cannon, not a brief instance.
For example, Ron eats at Beuno nacho pretty much every episode. We can say for certain that he is extremely fond of Beuno Nacho's food. Bonnie wore "poofy pink" for a 3 second walkby in one episode, we cannot say that she likes either "poofy" or "pink".
perfectblue 15:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to deal with the arrogance thing on 8, since that's where it belongs.
1f) Frenzy: extreme mental agitation; wild excitement or derangement. I think that works in queen Bebe, but maybe frantic does too. It depends, because I once postulated that Kim may have OCPD (not OCD, but the personality disorder associated with it)-- it is almost exactly the same as the definition for "type A personality" that people have created on this page.
2f) Yeah: campaign poster vandalism is cliche, but I think it's a symptom of something whether it's a cliche or not! What does it matter if it's cliche or whether it only lasts 10 seconds? It changes the pitch of the episode and even the series.
3f) "Kim lied to avoid hurting people's feelings." It's going to take a lot to convince people that she lied not to do whatever she wanted but "to avoid hurting pple's feelings"
4f) Of course Kim wouldn't commit murder! She's not that screwed up, obviously. I agree with your assessment: "she occasionally plays tit-for-tat"
5f) True, Bonnie is a nutcase: I'm not disputing that. However, was Kim's response something a hero would do? Use all the hot water and unplug the alarm? What a b*tch!
8f) What makes you think she was simply picking herself up? I think she was maybe doing both: picking herself up AND putting other people down.
About your "5 seconds is too short" thing: First, if it's too short a segment, how come you remember it? Second, if a scene doesn't matter, why would it be included? Third, if it reveals something about a character, why leave it out of canon? PB97, you are too literal with your interpretation because you leave out tiny, but really important, scenes! What if I discounted the abuse Bonnie receives from her sisters, and the pain she shows in her face, in Bonding? We would miss out on the whole reason that Bonnie attacks Kim! Take a closer look at your assessment of Kim's personality please.
=CJK= 16:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
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Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors. Please stop being uncivil to your fellow editors, and assume that they are here to improve Wikipedia. Thank you. ~~~~ |
PB97, that was very clever putting that cliche bull at the end of her personality profile. Why don't you participate in the debate instead of making sh*t up? You know that she has SERIOUS personality flaws, so just leave it the way it is now, please.
=CJK= 23:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I think that we have a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word "Cliche". In this context a cliche is "a common plot element of theme". It doesn't mean that it isn't a personality fault, or that it isn't important, it means that it was "scripted as a drama/comedy set-piece teen".
For example, "Kim engaged in Cliche election vandalism" doesn't mean that it wasn't a personality fault, or that it wasn't important. It means she did what "other teen drama/comedy characters do" in that situation. The same for the lie, she didn't just lie once. She lied, then she covered up the lie with another lie, and then lied to cover that up too. This is a traditional moral warning (to the audience) about the perils of lying like that, which is commonly used in teen drama/comedy.
Take a look at other teen drama/comedy. Most have at least one episode where an otherwise honest character lies to go to a party or something similar, then lies to cover up that lie, and so on, or where they engage in election vandalism.
Look at shows like Saved by the Bell, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, As told by Ginger, the Simpsons. All of them have run these themes with their characters. There are clearly genre cliches.
This doesn't lessen the fact that they happened, it tells the audience how and why they happened.
perfectblue 14:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about coming on so strong- forgive? Anyway, yeah, I see what you mean about how there are lots of cliche episodes like october 31 and the election thing in royal pain. However, I think the word "cliche," no matter how it's used or where, makes it seem like it ISN'T a character flaw! The word "common" is okay, but I don't know why we are adding this information if it's common in other shows... I deleted the sentence that says that it's common in the genre because it adds NOTHING to the analysis-- in fact, it detracts from it. =CJK= 15:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
mechanical ability
RE my recent edit.
In "Motor Ed" Kim showed that she was bored by mechanics, not that she was bad at it. In fact she never actually did any actual mechanics in that episode. In "Job unfair" she remembered exactly what janitor Joe said to her even though she was halfway out the door at the time, and used what she'd learned to to save the day. It wasn't really mechanics, just operating a machine, and she was good at it.
This is exactly what I'm saying about blowing things out of all logical proportion. In order to say that she is bad at something, she must actually be seen to do it badly. Such as when she was unable to cook at the beginning of "Two to tutor", or when she did badly at Beuno Nacho.
perfectblue 15:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
With Motor Ed I think you're right so it was my mistake, it's only lack of interest this may or may not indicate anything but in the real world, normally when you do not take interest in certain fields unlike other fields you have a keen interest in is because you really are not good at it and please note that the reason one has interest in a certain field is because he/she is good at it, because there is a strong empaphy from that person concerning that field, the easiness that person feels with that field does indicate it's potential with it because it is a sign that person has a clear understanding of it. The opposite is many times right, take for instance Kim's lack of interest in games and at the same time she is literally horrible, and in Ron's case he does show to be good with many games yet sometimes the distraction factor makes him lower his performance as directly stated by Felix in Motor Edd, in fact this was the first "important" time when Ron began to understand it's his inabilty to focus that makes him lose with a lot of things. However concerning Kim, if she really does not show a good performance or a bad performance with something than most likely it's really because she isn't good at it, because she always tries her best and makes as much an effort as possible.
I'm not saying that just because of lack of interest she is bad, but I do am saying that lack of interest is indeed a possible indication she is not good at it.
However with Job Unfair, things did not go as you said. First the janitor was constantly complaining in their private classes that Kim was not understanding what she was learning as an example we had Kim mixing the names for the components and not understand their interactions with the system, this also shows she doesn't have good 3D imaging, which is essencial for mechanics and physics related fields, and please take note hat she was making an effort to understand it, remember that Kim is ultra competitive and always make a serious effort in order to either understanding things or be successful in some activity. However in the end she did finally underdtand what she had to do however she needed the practica, direct example, not to mention the time it took to finally understand it. What this episode shows us is that she certainly isn't good with mechanics and that she realy has difficulties in understanding mechanical systems and thier logics and please take note that Kim's knowledge is far superior to Ron in everything with exception of Bueno Nacho subjects and games(and possibly one other) and she does have more knowledge than Ron in mechanics, concerning there is little doubt, if his knowledge is tenuous in almost everything, including mechanics then his potential with mechanics is certainly higher than Kim's.
Concerning Kim it is certain that she doesn't distinguish herself in mechanics or other related fields and the episode Job Unfair does indicate that besides from not being good at it she does have difficulties, this COULD tell us that she isn't good with mechanical related fields, COULD, however to say she is good at them is completely unfundamented and irrational in some aspects.
ThoriusMAximus 02:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
In short it this:
Kim is certainly not good at mechanics, and there isn't anything that suggests this, but possibly the oposite.
However I agree that this does not for certain say that this is one of her weak fields, although there are indications.
I do agree tha she is most likely average on these fields, she is neither good or bad, but she doesn't distinguish herself from the others in this. Imagine a class of college students who are attending mechanics engeneering. In the class she would be one of average students, nor good but nor bad.
The issue is she is either bad or "normal-average" is still debatable, but, the issue if she is good is certainly out of the question, at least with me. Trust me, since I'm a mechanics student I think I at least know what I'm saying concerning that takes for someone to be good at mechanical-physics related fields and also according to what I've seen in the episode.
I suggest that you watch "Job unfair again". Kim has two lessons, one of which lasts all of 5 seconds, and consisted of Joe blasting out a series technobabel before being interrupted by Wade on the Kimunicator. Kim never finishes the lessons and by her own admission didn't pay attention. I doubt that anybody could have taken all of it in in that space of time. However, at the end of the episode, when Kim stops and actually concentrates on what Joe told her, she gets it right. Besides, she was working a control console which isn't mechanics.
"the reason one has interest in a certain field is because he/she is good at it, because there is a strong empaphy from that person concerning that field"
Mostly, people become good at something through practice, and aren't naturally good at things on their first go. Most pro-ball players started out swinging a bat madly, just like the rest of us. Wait till you have daughters and they pester you to take them to ballet class.
"this COULD tell us"
Could doesn't cut it. Could is WP:OR.
"I do am saying that lack of interest is indeed a possible indication she is not good at it."
In "Motor Ed", she states that she thinks an interest in cars and engines etc is a "boy thing". If you want to play the supposition game, I surmise that this indicates that she has never tried mechanics in the first place.
"this also shows she doesn't have good 3D imaging"
Where? it's not mentioned anywhere in the script so you can't say that. That's pure WP:OR
"remember that Kim is ultra competitive and always make a serious effort in order to either understanding things or be successful in some activity."
Kim is also image conscious, she didn't want to be seen with Joe and didn't consider his lessons to be important. By her own admission she didn't pay attention.
perfectblue 11:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
A control console involves mechanics otherwise it will not work, it involves as sub mechanical system along with an electric system and in mechanics you learm these two part because mechanics will not be apliable in many situations if these two aren't taught.
- Being good at mechanics means being able to role up your sleeves and fixing a broken engine. You're talking about engineering.
Ok, so now she wasn't concentrating as far as I saw she even her hands in her forehead because she was tired of trying to grasp it. First, Kim did finish the lessons since the control box was all she needed to know. Second, your analysis in inconrrect, because the only thing Joe told her, the only thing, was about the control box. And yes it does show lack of 3D imaging because during Kim's lessons in order for her to understand what was told to her she needed to create an 3D image of the system and she was not grasping the explanation given to her with means she does not have a good abstract logical system of thinking things, in other words she has dififculty in understanding in imagining system with the things Joe gave her, in other she has difficulty with mechanics. By the what Joe did gave her a model of the machine and was pointing directly what components he is mentioning not to mention he is showing the system in the most direct and objective way possible, and was telling directly things about just two components, and was indicating then in the model and telling directly what to do, if he was showing a model showing exactly what she had to do then it could have been simpler. If she did not understand, then she does not seem to be at it.
- 1) This isn't real life. You can't mention 3D imaging unless the the script does. Thi sis what I mean by reading too much into sometihng 2) She thought that she was being taught to strip a robot vacuum cleaner. She didn't think that it was important so she even try to understand it. 3) You are forgetting how the show ended. She remembered exactly what Joe told her and successfully shut the machine down.
"Kim has two lessons, one of which lasts all of 5 seconds"
This is a complete biased statement, Kim's lessons were several(it was a week) and they took a long time, even Joe stated he getting tired of Kim not grasping it after a substancial period of time as he had stated it, after it was just one single instruction, he was telling her that the control box was linked to system that supplies it with electrons, the only instruction he said was that these two are connected and that she had to disconnect them in order to end the power supply.
- "Electrons? which episode were you watching? The entire scene was talking about water.
- According to the script, Joe told her that "the main output valve is connected to the filter compression tank with a bypass located in the gear shifting transmuter", and she shut it down by adjusting the "hydro reflux valve".
- This isn't even mechanics. It's technobabel. It more or less means "You can reverse the flow of water by turning the flow reversal valve (hydro reflux valve) next to the gearbox (gear shifting transmuter)". Which she did. Proving that she had learned what Joe said after all.
"Mostly, people become good at something through practice, and aren't naturally good at things on their first go. Most pro-ball players started out swinging a bat madly, just like the rest of us. Wait till you have daughters and they pester you to take them to ballet class."
I'm sorry but this is completely incorrect, most people will have a previous interest on the field before further advancing on that field.
- She wasn't interested in the slightest. Not being good at something because you haven't practiced, and being bad at something are quite different things.
"Kim is also image conscious, she didn't want to be seen with Joe and didn't consider his lessons to be important. By her own admission she didn't pay attention."
Nevertheless she did all the effort she could offer and she was having difficulty, all this despite the fact she was complaining which does not affect her "obligation" to be in those classes, which by the way was an obligation. Second she was imagine but this in not linked in anything concerning if she did well or not in those classes, the only thing it affecte in her behaviour was the fact she would not dare say what she was doing in the janitor closet, and no matte how ashamed or embarassed she was, she ahd to particiapate in those classes and grasp what she was doing, those classes were several(it was a week) and they were long as show by Joe remarks about Kim taking to long to understand a small and simple mechanical system which was shown in a direct way, by a model not an abstract explanation this means she does indeed have serious difficulties in understanding mechanical related field, and this is clearly shown in the episode.
- According to the script, she successfully learned what Joe was telling her and shut down the weather machine despite not paying attention. She also twice skippted out on her "obligation", which shows exactly how seriously she took it.
For once accept what others tell you.
ThoriusMaximus 15:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi Thorius, could you keep the nastiness down? I've been noticing you do it when you get really into a topic, but it's not necessary... and it kinda makes me nervous for some reason. You're a good debater: don't ruin it with a foul attitude. :) =CJK= 16:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry them CJK and I apologize for any nastiness I may have shown in my posts, howoever it is a bit inappropriate and sometimes annoying for someone to continuosly put aside other's opinions, in so far everything, no matter how direct and objective the evidence is and to continuosly put excuses to refuse any other person's opinions. I think I'll stop for now writing these comments, as I'm getting a bit tired of it.
ThoriusMaximus 16:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to state that PerfectBlue97 has modified entirwly my last post. I don't know if this was made accidentaly or on purpose but say the history "moddifications" page and he did even make other changes concerning his modiffications to my own post, yet he did not correct my post to it's original structure and content.
ThoriusMaximus 18:47, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, your passage was long, and so were my responses. I intermixed my reply to avoid bullet pointing and quoting.
- perfectblue 13:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- You could have writen an "improved" version of what we all have been discussing said in a separate statement. I don't think it's necessary or even appropriate to change one's response. Try to write a seperate "correction" next time ok, please?
ThoriusMaximus 17:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
You guys could stop talking about mechanical ability and join the debate at the personality flaws section right above... :) =CJK= 23:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Lol. Sorry, but for now I'll take a break from things here, sorry I can't participate in the other issue for now.
I hope you guys get my point of view, but at the same time I respect yours.
I just hope I have been minimably usefull in organizing some issues in the Ron/Kim pages.
ThoriusMaximus 01:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I can't let you do that, Mr. Thorius. Stay! I'll be nicer this time, okay? I will stop calling you names behind your back and stealing your chow mein outta the fridge. Stay and edit. =CJK= 15:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- Only if you return the chow mein you stole outta my fridge. :P The thing is that it's going to be a bit more difficult for me to log in for a while.
ThoriusMaximus 17:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't actually "correcting" anything. More answering it inline.
How about a compromise? I am 100% willing to accept that she is not good at "car mechanics", and that "Car Alarm" verifies this. How about we drop the argument about "Job unfair", and cite "car alarm" for car mechanics instead?
perfectblue 10:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Works for me dude if you agree then I also 100% agree. But I wouldn't put car mechanics, instead I would put mechanics(in general) since I think it's more accurate because there isn't any real difference between car mechanics and for instance mechanics gor another application(trains, trucks, factories lines) because it is still the same thing, the only difference between these things is that they are different applications but they are all mechanics, the thing is that you'll find in university several course concerning mechanics only because mechanics is a field with countless applications(emphasis on the countless) and a very extensive field bu yet it's all under the same concepts and method of application, that's why you have train mechanics course, car mechanics course, mechanical engeneering(which is the "generic" or "general" course because you learn general mechanics itself, without any specializations but to give good examples of mechanics this course has several bits from several applications of mechanics, that's why the course is the "general" course or "generic" course. In short, mechanics is equal in everything that is mechanics, it's just the application of mechanics that are endless that's why there are lots of course you can take,but these courses are all equal concerning the mathematical and physical concepts but different in applications.
Preety please agree with this please. :)
But, independently of our final agreement I would just like to state a short phrase or my basic idea about Kim and mechanics.
Job Unfair(In my opinion) shows that she isn't good at mechanics but at the same time it doesn't say she is bad. One things seems to counter balance the other, in other words, the fact she had difficulty in learning the instruction and in understanding the concept, which was given through a physical model and directly (and we see her mix the compenents and their functions showing that she wasn't at that time understanding the system) all this was somewhat balanced with the fact she then finaly understood exactly what she had to do(by finaly understanding the system) by looking at the system in the ship itself. Basically she's in the middle, she's just normal at it, just like the normal high school student would have those usual difficulties with physics or maths.
Don't worry this isn't to respond, it's just that I have put my opinion in a shortened version so that people would better understand, no need to respond since we agree this topic is now over. Despite showing my opinion about Job Unfair I'll go with your suggestion, I'll drop the argument about Job Unfair.
ThoriusMaximus 13:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Let's just agree that Car alarm alone is sufficient to show that Kim's not a grease monkey.
Personally, I had to listen to Hank twice before I worked out that he was telling her that she needed to turn the water valve next to the gearbox in order to send the machine into reverse, and I don't think that any teenage girl could reasonably be expected to understand that. but it's beside the point because we're going to reference car alarm instead.
perfectblue 13:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Exactly what you said, Kim has difficulties that are normal in teenager students.
ThoriusMaximus 13:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, Car Alarm brings a whole new level to the debate. She is unable to fix up the Sloth (at all) and turns to the Tweebs for help. However, it could be the car was just too far gone. So whether she has mechanical ability is now multi-faceted. 24.174.59.156 20:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Defense Mechanisms
There's got to be a better way of wording the bit about defense mechanisms. Aside from "So the Drama", she mostly only has a problem with displacement, and only in social settings.
I didn't say anything about Kim's own defense mechanisms. I just replaced the definition of the word "defense mechanisms" in a sentence with the actual word. I agree that she doesn't understand people's motivations to be annoying, and so I kept the sentence the way it was. Also, I don't see displacement in her really- I'm not exactly a Freudian. Maybe she's repressing feelings of her own inadequacy (if you like Freud), but when I put that on the page, you deleted it (damn you, WP:OR!). There are, like, 60 ways to avoid anxiousness about the conflict between the "ego states": Kim probably has a conflict, like most people, between her superego and id- but it's a long, drawn out fight, and I don't think that fight relates to morality vs. sexual urges.
Although, I guess you could make a case for displacement because she treats Bonnie like Shego... but it's a thin case because she never beats up Bonnie or even threatens her with physical violence.
I would, if I were a jungian, say that she worries mostly about not being a good person in both a moral sense ("My motivations are bad") and a technical sense ("I'm not good at X"). She then doesn't analyze this fight, but instead pushes it down. Repression is the most common defense mechanism, and it fits here.
See what you made me do? You just outed me as a psych grad student who watches cartoons.
=CJK= 15:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
(Rolling eyes), she has a problem "recognizing displacement in other people".
perfectblue 16:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm... what makes you say that? =CJK= 17:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
For example Bonnie is mean because she is insecure (as you pointed out from Bonding). but does Kim recognize this?
perfectblue 13:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that makes alot of sense. I remember when I was just an ISP number in january, and you didn't really buy my idea that Bonnie uses Kim as an additional sister: one that, even though she isn't mean, is interpreted as being mean. Can we edit Bonnie's page to include this? Or is it already there? =CJK= 15:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- I think we have a little misunderstanding there. I believe 100% that Bonnie is the way that she is because of her sisters, and I would say so if I was writing on my personal website. However, I'm basing my belief on real world psychology and a 5 second scene that isn't supported by any other part of the franchise (her sisters are only ever mentioned in one other episode), which isn't enough "proof" in Wiki-terms.
Because this is fiction, thing generally have to be both very obvious and recurring. We can note that they happened, but we can't assign anything deeper unless it's basically scripted word for word. For example, Ron is afraid of Monkeys because of his experience at Wannaweep. This is jammed down our throats from series 1 to series 3, and is said directly. So we can say "Ron is afraid of Monkeys because he shared a bunk house with a rampaging chimp mascot" just as we can say "Bonnie is bullied and belittled by her sisters" because it is obvious (it's already included in the sisters section of Bonnie's page).
However, we cannot say "Ron is afraid of primates" because we've only seen him reacting to monkeys and not apes etc. So, unless Bonnie actually compare Kim to her sisters or something like that we can't look much deeper than the bullying aspect of things.
I'm not knocking your input, and I agree with most of it, I'm just guarding against supposition and "Real world interpretations" of a scripted world.
Native language
I don't know what your native language is, but in the scope of this page it is important that you understand the meaning of the word "Frenzy" and how it is used in English.
When somebody is said to be "frenzied", or to go into a "frenzy" in an angry context in English (as you are implying), it means to loose control, to be overtaken by anger and to become uncontrollably aggressive or psychopathic. Frenzy is going beyond angry, until you become berserk.
Shego could be said to be "Frenzied" when she was effected by the Moodulator. But not Kim when she was angry with Bonnie.
perfectblue 12:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
"I don't know what your native language is"? I'm not even going to respond to that.
I've been learning English in school since I was 5 English years old, and am as fluent as any American. I'd offer to converse with you in Chinese, but I doubt very much that you speak it. How about Spanish?
perfectblue 10:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- Guys...calm down. Come on. Fighting over diction choice?!? =D Jumping cheese Cont@ct 10:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, Jumpingcheese is right: you need to shut your mouth you little kid. =CJK= 06:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- That was uncalled for...no one is a little kid. You guys are fighting over KP. Seriously. No need to get pissed. Jumping cheese Cont@ct 09:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
For the record, I'd wager that I am quite a bit older than both of you. Old enough to have previously lectured in western youth culture in fact, and to know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm also warning you right now that if you make one more comment like that, I'm going to cite you under WP:NPA or WP:Civility.
perfectblue 10:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- It's getting hot in here. Cool down. Jumping cheese Cont@ct 10:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- I noticed, but this is about the third time that insinuations have been made against me. (including that I "Made &^&$ up, which is a serious allegation on a site like this). I let it go before because I don't want a fight, but I'd really rather it stopped now before it gets out of hand.
- perfectblue 11:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah...there's some nasty stuff on Wikipedia, but try not to take anything personally. It's easy for users to make personal attacks on the internet...so I simply ignore them. =) Jumping cheese Cont@ct 11:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)