Talk:Kashmir (song)

Eminem

What is that Eminem song that sounds like Kashmir? I always thought it took a sample from Kashmir with that guitar riff, so it should be mentioned as the page mentions other people who have sampled it. DarkSideOfTheSpoon 22:27, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

"Lose Yourself"? It's similar, but not identical. And if we list every Led Zep ripoff, this could go on for quite a while.  :) Rob 16:09, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I searched for that "eminem" song a while now. Unit I found out that it is not eminem. I'm pretty sure you mean "come with me" from puff daddy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.186.76.13 (talk) 15:11, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Ascending patter

The following was on the description of the initial ascending patter: which Jimmy Page used for several years to tune his guitar. I don't see how this could be the case. The guitar tuning used is D-modal and the riff is only played on two strings. It could be used to check that those two were in the correct pitch, but wouldn't give any information on tuning the other strings. — KayEss | talk 11:45, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Longest LZ Songs

Do we really need the "Longest LZ Songs" section? Nichlemn 02:43, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I asked myself this too. I found it moderately interesting, but it's kind of out of place here.--TheUniversal 01:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Lyrics

I'm removing the lyrics--they're almost certainly copyrighted. (If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.)Rob 16:09, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

You are wrong. Lyrics, words, what someone says and is a state of fact is not copyrighted in an educational form, nor anywhere on WIKI. Here is a link. https://play.google.com/music/preview/T2ebogntxemliguxzlsj5y24ibu?lyrics=1&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.235.117 (talk) 11:18, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Bonham's drums

The description of the recording method for Bonham's drumming in this article is identicle to that of When the Levee Breaks. I think this is an error and am tempted to remove the reference from this page. -albrozdude 06:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Other references

In football, from time to time, I hear the tune of Kashmir being played during Eagles games. --69.67.234.249 01:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Pop Will Eat Itself ripped the riff.

The hook (if thats what you want to call it) it in Emerson Drive's version of The Devil Went Dow nto Georgia... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.184.25.51 (talk • contribs)

Wasnt it on the end of the first Matrix movie when neo gets out of the phone booth ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.189.57.190 (talk) 15:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Other versions

What, no reference to Bond's version? --67.83.148.217 (talk) 18:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Was about to mention that version. Also I think Justin Timberlake samples it in one of his songs. Gemfyre (talk) 10:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

How about Cypress Hill's (Rock) Superstar? It is a very clear sampling, and unlike the Rage Against the Machine song Wake Up (which only uses Kashmir in the opening), the sample is used throughout the entire Cypress Hill song. 75.34.226.35 (talk) 17:50, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Heavy Metal?

According to this article, this is a "heavy metal" song. I disagree with this. This song does not sound like "heavy metal" to me (or at least, heavy metal as I know it). Is it considered heavy metal simply because there isn't anything better to call it, or is it truly heavy metal because there's some sort of official definition of heavy metal (like the sort of definition that makes Antarctica a desert or something)? Pippin the Mercury (talk) 18:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

If this is a heavy metal song, wouldn't it be like the first symphonic metal song then? 68.102.235.239 (talk) 21:57, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Symphonic rock?

Wouldn't Kashmir also be a symphonic rock song? If not, could someone fill me in on why it wouldn't be? 68.102.235.239 (talk) 03:46, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

There is no accompaniment from any symphony of any kind on this song? It is just a hard rock song. No need for superfluity or foolishness. Hard rock or just Rock will cover it fine. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 03:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

There is a string section in there. But, I agree it is not "symphonic rock" because the string section is really a minor part of the song.Ndriley97 (talk) 00:26, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

The "string" section was Jones on Mellotron, no orchestra...--David Be (talk) 03:22, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Seldom receives airplay?

Huh? On every classic rock station I've listened to, in different markets, this is almost as much of a staple as "Stairway to Heaven". Who came up with this? Daniel Case (talk) 01:26, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Of course the answer depends purely on the radio station format meant by the contributor, Master&Expert. After that contribution, Wiki libs added a {{fact}} tag. The passage in general has problems in the WP:WEASEL realm. I think the statement is probably correct when thinking of a "classic rock morning drive time" format (ex: WZLX Boston) yet the station would likely play the song at night. Any rock station that plays Zeppelin requests probably plays "Kashmir" a few times a week. BUT - the statement is pretty useless without a source. It's no better than my speculatory "likely" and "probably" talk page comments above. Maybe you could find a published list or source to back up your contention. Beware the "List of best-selling albums worldwide" trap, however. That list is one of the worst well-cited lists I have seen on Wikipedia, as it sources sites like this six times and then actually replaces the numbers found on the source with seemingly arbitrary figures.

My preference would be having an intro more like the one found at "Down by the Seaside"; I implore any expert editors who read this to help redo the intro for this "top 10" ^{[is that a fact?](smiling)} Led Zeppelin composition. Sswonk (talk) 23:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Time Signature

Removed the section about drums being in 4/4 and the melodic instruments in 3/4. There was a citation, but the citation said 2/4 and 3/4. Both are incorrect. The entire song is 4, the melodic instruments are just very syncopated. Whoever wrote about different time signatures at the Allmusic guide was wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.129.240 (talk) 15:48, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting. I came here to ask more since the quote by Plant mentions the time signature without saying what's unusual about it. -- Ralph Corderoy (talk) 00:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I hate it when people are ignorant about basic musical facts! I don't have a source so can't correct the article, but 68.49.129.240 is right: song is in basic 4/4 time, and syncopation in main riff. You could say "3/4 over 4/4" (also because the main riff lasts 3 measures, the result of that superposition), but it definitely is NOT in 6/8!!... --David Be (talk) 15:33, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

[Edited] Yes, but 2/4 (or 4/4) for the drumming and 3/4 for the main guitar line/riff is a distinctive and key feature of the song. And it's a more accurate and descriptive model, in my opinion, than simply saying "the melodic instruments are just very syncopated" (no disrespect to the original poster). It's hard to make a definitive pronouncement, because there is always room for interpretation re: time signatures. (E.g., is one song in 2/4 or 4/4? Is another a fast 3/4 or slow 6/8? In fact, the melodic part we're discussing here could also be modeled with the drums in 4/4 and the melodic riff in 6/4.) And while can't say it's flat-out wrong to write off the whole issue as simply "syncopation," the main melodic riff does not emphasize the weak beat. The unusual approaches to timing is one of the most interesting things about the song, and the section and citation were improperly removed, in my opinion.

See, for example, this: https://architecturesofmusic.wordpress.com/2016/02/23/kashmir-analysis/

[Additional edit. And this will be all for me.] On a larger level, I object that a correct, properly cited statement can be removed by an anonymous user based on the unsupported pronouncement that it was incorrect. The standards of oversight seem to have declined significantly on Wikipedia. In the past, I've made such edits that were (rightfully) removed within hours of my making them. The tamale (talk) 03:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Disputed accuracy of chart positions section

This article claims that "Kashmir" was number 40 on the "French Singles Chart" in 1975. The web page cited as a reference, www.infodisc.fr, takes information from a number of different sources and combines it (a "synthesis" as they call it) into one comprehensive, yet artificial, chart position. For instance, the song "Kashmir" only appeared on a chart in the monthly magazine Salut Les Copains ("Hello Buddies"), for three months at number 12, 11 and 7. Through their formula, or "synthesis", the webmasters arrived at a chart position of number 40 with the three months equating to 13 weeks on the chart. This is a present-day estimation of where the song might have placed on an imagined 1975 chart. "Kashmir" was not released as a single in France, it was not number 40 on a "French Singles Chart" in 1975 nor was there a "Top 100 Singles: 15 February 1975" as the wikipedia reference is named. In fact, the album on which this song appears had not even been released yet on 15 February 1975.

There is also a reference to an "Italian Singles Chart". The web page cited as a reference, www.hitparadeitalia.it/indici/per_anno/hpy1975.htm, lists popular songs by year dating back hundreds of years. Songs that appeared on a chart show the peak position in brackets, while other songs listed are simply those deemed important or successful in the opinion of the web site's creators. "Kashmir" shows no chart position and was not released as a single in Italy, it was not on an "Italian Singles Chart" in 1975 nor was there a "Top 100 Singles - 1975" as the wikipedia reference is named. 70.191.127.27 (talk) 16:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Infodisc.fr is considered an acceptable chart and is listed under WP:GOODCHARTS. MegX (talk) 23:39, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Infodisc.fr is listed under WP:GOODCHARTS for certifications but not for sales or airplay. 70.191.127.27 (talk) 11:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Infodisc is also used on List of French number-one hits of 2007 as well as the French singles templates for Number 1 songs. The usage of infodisc is widespread on wikipedia. MegX (talk) 10:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Song on Supernatural

Someone listed that this song was played on the television show Supernatural, season two "Houses of the Holy" while Dean was on the vibrating bed. The song is actually Down on Love by Jamie Dunlap, is it not? I know on his phone it is displayed as Kashmir, but the music certainly doesn't match. So, should we bother listing it?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.227.15.239 (talk) 02:00, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Heavy metal: Part 2

Shouldn't metal be in the box for this song? While the song does have some rather obvious Middle Eastern influences, it also has Page's huge, somewhat scary, riff which is pretty heavy. Also we have a cite from Billboard where during the review for Coheed and Cambria review they refer to the song having metal bombast. RG (talk) 20:58, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I suppose you need to find a source that says heavy metal. Free As A Byrd (talk) 21:07, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Did you read the one above? RG (talk)21:39, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I'm not sure if a passing reference in a review of another artist's work is good enough. Free As A Byrd (talk) 22:23, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Billboard is considered a reliable source. Seeing as you're new here see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard if you want to dispute whether a reference is reliable or not. RG (talk) 22:59, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I know Billboard is reliable. I'm saying the reference is trivial, since the article is about a different band entirely. Free As A Byrd (talk) 00:59, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

This is a joke. This song is not heavy metal. It might be heavy, but it is in no way, shape, or form close to anything that resembles metal. One band that wrote music 30 years later saying in passing that the song has heavy metal influences is hardly a cause for calling this song "heavy metal". Either cite it, or leave the genre alone. It's that simple. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 14:56, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

"This is a joke" Wow that wasn't rude at all. "Either cite it" I have a source.RG (talk) 19:50, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Your reading comprehension might not be up to snuff - the phrase "metal bombast reminiscent of Led Zeppelin's Kashmir" is referring to the Coheed and Cambria's song "Welcome Home". They are saying the "metal bombast" of that song is reminiscent of another song. And that in no way makes "Kashmir" a metal song. If you're going to find a reference for this, maybe it should at least be a reference that is about "Kashmir" and not other music. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 02:19, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Schooly D

Should there be a reference to Schoolly D's "Signifying Rapper" seeing as it caused such a stir after being featured in the movie Bad Lieutenant? Including a succesful lawsuit filed by Zeppelin (which now seems all the more reveleant due to Page's later endorsement of P.Diddy's song "Come With Me"). --Jonathanmorrisdublin (talk) 12:06, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I think it should be, but it has been removed several times, most recently here. / edg ☺ ☭ 14:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

This is restored, but don't be too surprised when someone removes it again. / edg ☺ ☭ 15:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The previous discussion and edits were affected by a number of sockpuppets (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Leanne/Archive). Shouldn't be a problem now, unless the sockpuppets return to this article. Piriczki (talk) 17:13, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Good to know—thank you much. Also, I undid this edit because the sample is in there underneath the live band; it is audible if you listen, and referred to as a "sample" in the citations that mentions it. / edg ☺ ☭ 19:05, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Personnel?

A Personnel Section would be nice... just saying —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.108.231 (talk) 19:00, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Classification

Kashmir must have "world music" in it's genre' name.

Keeping in mind however, that songs by this band are often unclassifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.76.25 (talk) 10:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Covers section

Should the covers section be reformatted to be in paragraphs? Or would it look better in a table that shows the band/artist that covered it and the album/place that they covered it in? HotshotCleaner (talk) 00:45, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Rage Against the Machine's Wake up

Though both the main riff of Zeppelin's "Kashmir" and the intro to Rage Against the Machine's "Wake Up" bear slight similarities in tune, it seems quite misleading to jump to the conclusion that the RATM intro is "adapted from the opening chords." What does that even really mean? That's an extremely loose claim. There is a finite number of notes, chords, and progressions in music. Some songs will certainly sound similar, even across genres and cultures. But this line on the wiki article is essentially claiming musical plagiarism. With no actual citation or quote from the RATM band, this gives the impression that they ripped off a Zeppelin song. But all it takes is a quick listen to the first 30 or so seconds of each song to see how dissimilar they are. Kashmir has, I believe, a 5 chord progression, played in an abnormal time signature (ie: not 4/4...sadly I can't figure out the exact time signature) <-- )*it's in 3/4 bro, and fyi 'wake up' does sound incredibly similar

Now analyze the Wake Up intro. 2 Chord progression. Really, it's just 1 chord with a guitar switching between 2 notes in the background, giving the illusion of 2 chords being played. This intro is also very obviously in a standard 4/4 time signature.

Vanilla ice ripped off Queen/Bowie. That's pretty much fact and pretty obvious when listening to each track side by side. But until de la Rocha or Tom Morello come out and say this song was (very, VERY loosely) inspired by Kashmir, I call BS. If this line on the wiki article is to hold any water at all, it should perhaps be changed to "both songs play a similar chord at one point." But then you would have to add that to every other wiki article about a song. Music sometimes sounds like other music. No news there. Citations/quotes people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.78.228.66 (talk) 04:37, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I am shocked by two facts: Obviously you are neglecting obvious similarities. The riffs are exactly the same! Second, RATM does not mention it on their album, that this is the Kashmir riff (wtf?). I red somewhere, that Tom Morello openly speaks about borrowing the riff from Kashmir and that Jimmy Page has no problem with it. But I couldnt't find anywhere the original quotes. 77.253.130.69 (talk) 19:49, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Tv series Revolution

The song is also played in a short sequence in Eric Kripke's(Supernatural) recent Tv show Revolution. The episode is even called Kashmir. Someone might add this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.181.73.112 (talk) 14:02, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Repeated addition of unreferenced material

On April 17, 2018, 90.227.144.17 re-added substantially similar material that was tagged "unreferenced" in 8/2017 and subsequently removed from the article in 9/2017, but the IP did not include any references. LpmedVN questioned my revert on my talk page, but before I could answer, he re-added most of the material without refs. Later, I responded on my talk page "Please read WP:BURDEN" and copied some of the text which explains that unreferenced material may be removed and should not be restored without inline sources. I reverted their re-addition with the edit summary "see WP:BURDEN". Since then, we have been reverting back and forth.

From their comments on my talk page and edit summaries, it doesn't appear that they understand WP:VERIFIABILITY and want me to point out what needs to have inline citations. I know from experience that Led Zeppelin articles are subject to constant vandalism, POV pushing, original research, and outright fraudulent material. Also, I am active at WP:GAN and know that most reviewers require inline citations for nearly every statement in an article. In order to avoid the problems and to make this a potential GAN, every sentence should have an inline citations to reliable sources. Almost all of the sentences in the rest of the article (except the lead) have inline cites, so this is not at all unusual. Once again, I am reverting their re-addition of unreferenced material. If they continue to revert, I will file a report at the appropriate Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard.

—Ojorojo (talk) 20:54, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Instead of harassing me, you could have just said what I needed to give sources to. Dick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LpmedVH (talk • contribs) 04:01, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

LpmedVH: Websites like Discogs and setlist.com have user generated content and therefore are not considered reliable sources (Discogs is included on the list of unreliable sources). The template will be added to the appropriate citations. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:29, 22 April 2018 (UTC)