Talk:Kalki/Archive 2
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Introductory sentence creates unnecessary mystique
From the introduction:
The description and details of Kalki are inconsistent among the Puranic texts. He is, for example, only an invisible force destroying evil and chaos in some texts, while an actual person who kills those who persecute others, and some texts portrayed him as someone leading an army of Brahmin warriors to eliminate adharma from the world.
This is not correct, descriptions of Kalkī are fairly consistent. The reference to the “invisible force” is from the Vāyu Purāṇa:
The powerful lord will destroy Mlecchas making his discus whirl. He will be invisible to all living beings and move about on the Earth.
And this is just a mimicry of the Bhagavad Gītā:
I am not manifest to everyone, being veiled by my divine Yogmaya energy. Hence, those without knowledge do not know that I am without birth and changeless.
See this article about an Islamic notion of the messiah (it’s all the same):
This raises the question – if the Qā’im will be unrecognizable in the physical world, how does he influence human beings? (Esoteric Apocalypse)
The claim is not that Kalkī is an invisible force, but that his identity is unknown to people as he actually is. But he is almost always depicted as a Brahmin warrior. Moreover the claim that Kalkī is a Brahmin warrior has less to do with a comparison to Paraśurāma (i.e. a Brahmin who slays Kṣatriyas), then it does with the notion that Kalkī will be an individual who unites the Military and Priestly caste into one.
The notion that the world ruler will be someone both priestly and kingly (i.e. regal) is a common idea, explicated by both Guénon and Evola. The Buddhists also depicted this in their Kālacakra Tantra. See the work by the Trimondis about how the first Kalkī king forced the escaping “Sun-worshipping” (note the symbolism) Ṛṣis to return to Śambhala. The departure of the Ṛṣis signifies the fissure of the Military and Priestly castes, which symbolizes the decline Golden Age. Mañjuśrīkirti attempted to preserve this by forcing the Ṛṣis to return.
Behind this unique historical Shambhala incident hides a barely noticed power-political motif. The seers (the Rishis) were as their name betrays clearly Brahmans; they were members of the elite priestly caste. In contrast, as priest-king Manjushrikirti integrated in his office the energies of both the priestly and the military elite. Within himself he united worldly and spiritual power, which — as we have already discussed above — are allotted separately to the sun (high priest) and the moon (warrior king) in the Indian cultural sphere. The union of both heavenly orbs in his person made him an absolute ruler. (The Shadow of the Dalai Lama)
In short, Kalkī is a mysterious figure, by virtue of the fact that his identity as he actually is, will be/is unknown to most people. (But not because he’s an invisible disembodied force.) Just like it was with Kṛṣṇa. But he will be a real person, and a militant Brahmin. There’s no need to create any ambiguity surrounding this. Reading the Purāṇas at face-value may create some mystique, but with some basic knowledge of theology, it should be easy to interpret them correctly.
Balance, NPOV
I am restoring much of the article to the last best version for balance and NPOV. We must summarize what the sources actually say, which is what the old version did. If someone has concerns, please read past discussions on this talk page and in the archives. Then, please state your concerns and let us discuss. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:17, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Source?
I have restored, once again, some of the unexplained flyby editing by IPs / new account, some of which misrepresents what the previously cited sources actually state. Please see WP:RS guidelines. Please do not cite quora.com and similar self-published blogs, these are not a reliable source, see WP:RSPSOURCES for why. On an image addition.... is there a scholarly source that discusses or links this image to Kalki? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 23:21, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Move Kalki Puran under Hindu texts, description
As Kalki Puran is a Hindu text, it should thus be moved under the description of Kalki in Hindu texts as development talks about “theories” and hypothesis of the Kalki Marvelcanon1 (talk) 02:50, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Delete "List of Claimants of the Kalki avatar"
I doubt that the list of people claiming to be Jesus is a separate section under the Jesus Christ article. This article is beholden to the same standards and should not entertain charlatans claiming to be a mythological character. If necessary, a separate article should include such content. It is my view that their names do not belong on this article, and propose that it is deleted or moved for maintaining standards on this website. Chronikhiles (talk) 16:09, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
- Resolved - Created new article on the subject: List of people claimed to be Kalki Chronikhiles (talk) 05:48, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Parents and wives of Kalki
Over the past week, a number of users, anonymous and otherwise, have made uncited edits to the names of Kalki's parents and spouses in the infobox deity, seemingly for their own purposes. One changed the name of the deity's parents to "Madan Lal" and "Kushma Kumari", claiming the deity's spouse's name is "Mamta". Yesterday, a user decided to change these names to "Palanivel" and "Latha", naming Kalki's spouse "Isha". I highly doubt that any of these names may be found in reliable sources in Hindu literature, Sanskrit or otherwise. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge, the names of Kalki's parents that are mentioned in the Puranas are Viṣṇuyaśas and Sumati. His spouse is mentioned as a princess named Padmavati.[1]
I found a translation of the Kalki Purana that states that another of his spouse is named Ramā, and his children from her are named Meghamala and Balahaka (p. 338). This text also states that the name of his sons through Padmavati are Jaya and Vijaya (p. 145).[2]
I have restored this content to the infobox. I was unable to find any reliable regional literature that offered different names for Kalki's parents and wives. An appeal: If anyone would like to make changes regarding this in the infobox, please do add reliable sources that support the new inclusions rather than removing cited content. Thank you. Chronikhiles (talk) 10:54, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
Proposed merge of List of people claimed to be Kalki into Kalki
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The main article, Kalki, is too short for a content split; neither does the content justify an own article. See WP:SPLIT — DaxServer (t · m · c) 08:03, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- "When two or more distinct topics with the same or a similar titles are being written about on the same page, even if they are closely related, a content split may be considered, and a disambiguation page created to point readers to the separate pages. Before proposing a split, consideration must be given both to notability of the offshoot topic and to potential neutrality issues. If one or more of the topics is not notable on its own, it may be more appropriate to simply remove the material from Wikipedia than to create a new article."
- I would rather the section removed as the claimants section is distinct from this article's content, but some user restored it once before. Please go ahead and delete it if you choose to, but the section does not belong on this article. There is precedence for a new article as well, since List of people claimed to be Jesus is an article on its from and not included in Jesus Christ. Chronikhiles (talk) 08:35, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
- Merge This list is an unnecessary content fork. Srijanx22 (talk) 08:56, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Let us limit Kalki to the deity as described in the scriptures; List of people claimed to be Kalki can be expanded and kept as independent list in line with List of people claimed to be Jesus, List of Buddha claimants or List of avatar claimants. --Redtigerxyz Talk 12:58, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
- Merge into List of avatar claimants page referenced by previous voter. No need to have a page for a specific avatar when the list is so short, which claimant pages for other specific avatars don't exist as far as my search went. Merging into the Kalki page may not be the norm as per the previous voter. Jroberson108 (talk) 11:43, 30 January 2023 (UTC)