Talk:Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball

Not listed with the Norwegian authorities

The name "KIL Toppfotball" is not registered with Norwegian authorities. What is the organization's formal name?

(I have searched in Norway's relevant registry: "KIL" [1], "Kongsvinger idrettslag" [2] and "toppfotball" [3])

Is it a nickname for the team?--155.55.60.112 (talk) 08:05, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The formal name is Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball (as is shown in the infobox almost twice). Kongsvinger IL, itself a shorter version of Kongsvinger idrettslag, is again often shortened to KIL. (Three letter acronyms are apparently popular for Norwegian sports clubs.) Ters (talk) 14:49, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The name of this article should be Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball, which is their formal name, but that is very long and difficult. Maybe move it to Kongsvinger IL TF? Mentoz86 (talk) 21:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I have never seen the name shortened that way and suspect that most people will find such a title artificial. If the Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball must be shortened, the only established way of shortening it significantly that does not come into conflict with the parent association (or the town), is to shorten Kongsvinger IL into KIL. Kongsvinger IL is pretty much known as just KIL or Kongsvinger. Toppfotball is just to disambiguate the professional soccer team from the parent club, which I do believe is notable in its own right, and other things called KIL. Ters (talk) 05:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. I agree that the parent club is the primary topic, and the new name is more descriptive of the article's subject. Miniapolis 15:25, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

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KIL Toppfotball → Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball – The club's formal name is Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball, while the WP:COMMONNAME is Kongsvinger IL. The problem is that Kongsvinger IL is an article about the parent multi-sports club, while this article is about the elite men's football team. Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball might too long for an article-title, and this was shortened to "KIL Toppfotball" in the past, which is used by some sources, and I am open for other suggestions than mine. It might be better to shorten the last part of the article-name to Kongsvinger IL TF or Kongsvinger TF, as the club is most known as "Kongsvinger" or "Kongsvinger IL", but "Kongsvinger" should definitely be included in the article title. I don't know if "TF" is a appropriate abbreviation for "Toppfotball, as it can also mean "TurnForening", but I do know that some sources shortens Strømsgodset IF's elite football-section "Strømsgodset Toppfotball" to Strømsgodset TF. Mentoz86 (talk) 11:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Mentoz86 (talk) 12:02, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I'd say that the common name is KIL or Kongsvinger, with KIL perhaps more used locally. Both are unsuited as article name for obvious reasons, and both also apply to the parent club. I'm fine with Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball, it's what we use at no.wikipedia, though I don't see much reason for moving the article either. Ters (talk) 17:00, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support - Sound reasoning from nominator. – PeeJay 13:17, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
• Comment These two English-language sources [4] [5] use 'Kongsvinger IL'. I note the Kongsvinger IL page does not have any English-language sources. Should the football club take the primary topic? Eldumpo (talk) 21:49, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I have been wondering at times, but am still leaning towards the current arrangement. The professional football team probably gets the most media focus today, and the ice hockey team plays under the American inspired name Kongsvinger Knights (despite formally being Kongsvinger IL Ishocket). The women's team is just as high in their corresponding league as the men's team, but it's unclear if they are Kongsvinger IL Fotball or Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball. There are also other sports where Kongsvinger IL has made a mark throughout history. Is it right for the men's football team to usurp the name based on a decade and a half in the top? But more importantly, Kongsvinger IL is the sports club, with the facilities, the identity and the history, while Kongsvinger IL Toppfotball is just a company, apparently an entity created just to separate the different economic and administrative realities of a professional football team from the rest of the club. As such, a merge could make sense, but such a merged article would be severly lopsided towards the men's football team, and it would be difficult to tell which infobox, or even rows in them, applied to which part of the club. Are there any other examples of clubs spanning multiple sports? (Both KIL Fotball and KIL Toppfotball are apparently indepentently members of the Norwegian Football Association, but with the same address.) Ters (talk) 05:42, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
    • Vålerengens IF, Sogndal IL, SFK Lyn, Stabæk IF and Byåsen IL are other examples of multi-sports club with more than one article. Lyn was very similar to KIL before the bankruptcy, with "FK Lyn" as the elite football section while "Lyn Fotball" organized the youth and amateur football in the club. It seems to me that there is established a consensus in WP Norway (long before I started editing) that the multi-sport club should be the primary topic. Mentoz86 (talk) 13:47, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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