Talk:Joseph Barbera/Archive 1

Archive 1

BBC

Hah BBC copied the end of this article almost verbatim...

"After Hanna's death in 2001, Barbera had remained active as an executive producer for Warner Bros. Animation on television series such as What's New, Scooby-Doo? and Tom and Jerry Tales." - Wikipedia

"Following Hanna's death, Joseph Barbera remained active as an executive producer for Warner Brothers Animation on TV series such as What's New, Scooby-Doo? and Tom and Jerry Tales. " - BBC

(Madrone 01:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC))

News

I have never heard of him, until I found this.

But, did he produce a lot of cartoons with Hanna (whoever that other one was?) But, in the late 1950s through early 1990s, they did produce awful a lot of cartoons or comics, but at an older age.

While they started producing Scooby-Doo cartoons and others in 1970's and 1980's, they were both in their late 50's thru their late 70's. The producer is 94 years old, I cannot believe he was born in 1911, is a very long time ago! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.98.29 (talk • contribs) 10 November 2005

Um, thanks? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.131.249 (talk) 05:45, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Lebanese descent ?

Someone has added "Lebanese descent" to both him and William Hanna. That seems quite a coincidence ! -- Beardo 13:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Naah, Barberá is a Catalonian last name. He might have been born in Little Italy, but only he could serve as a witness to his own ancestry (does anybody here have access to his autobiography?) If I'm not mistaken his ancestry is Catalonian (or Spanish, for those leaning to the right living in the Iberian peninsula...) Demf 10:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The 1920 and 1930 census have Joseph's parents born in Italy. Questors 21:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

He's of Lebanese descent. I myself have arabic television stations and when he died, they mentioned he was of Lebanese descent. Also, the source provided next to the line claims he's Lebanese. Lebanese people have similar last names to Southern Europeans, my mom's last name is as Italian as you can get. As for William Hanna, I don't know. Hanna is a common Lebanese name, as well, and it means John in Arabic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PassTheYouth (talk • contribs) 17:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

His autobiography only says he's Sicilian. On pages 17-18 it says his maternal grandmother was from Sciacca, province of Agrigento. On page 58 it says that his dad is Sicilian. We need better proof of the Lebanese claim. On page 128 of his autobio he calls himself Sicilian. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this confusion arose because Barbera is a name common in many Mediterranean countries, including Italy/Sicily and Lebanon. Some obits erroneously reported he was Lebanese, but I have to say his autobio saying both parents were Italian and spoke Italian trumps the other refs unless better info can be found. — Rlevse • Talk • 14:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

And his family was Catholic (p. 208 of autobio) — Rlevse • Talk • 01:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you really so ignorant to not know there's a huge Catholic Lebanese population? You shouldn't be editing anything on Wikipedia nor giving your opinions if you're that uneducated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.131.249 (talk) 05:43, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

This last info is irrelevant as a contradiction to Barbera's possible Lebanese descent, as the majority of the Lebanese people are Christians, especially emigrants outside the country. In fact most of them are Maronite (a branch of Catholism). Hope(N Forever) (talk) 23:13, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

You can discuss others' comments, but do not strike them out. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I just read this article after seeing a Tom and Jerry cartoon online, and remember seeing the claim to Lebanese ancestry here back in 2006 the day after Mr. Barbera died. As talked about in this discussion, this claim is erroneous. In his own autobiography My Life in Toons: From Flatbush to Bedrock in Under a Century, Barbera wrote he was born in New York City to parents of Italian descent. His article in the Encyclopaedia Britannica and a 1987 Hanna-Barbera press release of his biography say the same. 173.60.29.47 (talk) 19:23, 17 July 2009 (UTC)Rich Rodriguez, West Covina, CA, USA

Mr. Barbera's biography on Wikipedia contains 5 sources confirming he is of Sicilian ancestry.

Please see these verifiable links:

http://www.american.com/archive/2006/december/joseph-barbera-an-appreciation/article_print

http://www.niaf.org/research/contribution.asp

http://books.google.com/books?id=gy-FsWq_tOEC&pg=PA155&dq=joseph+barbera+sicilian#v=onepage&q=sicilian&f=false (Page 155) [Book was written by Iwao Takamoto, one of Barbera's closest friends and colleagues)

http://books.google.com/books?id=LAzWAAAAMAAJ&dq=joseph+barbera+sicilian&q=sicilian#search_anchor (Joseph Barbera's autobiography, "My life in 'toons: from Flatbush to Bedrock in under a century" By Joseph Barbera Page 128 - HE HIMSELF SAYS HE IS SICILIAN!!!!) READ!--XLR8TION (talk) 04:40, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

- This article in the Guardian news paper says he is of Lebanese. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1537372/Master-cartoonist-who-created-Tom-and-Jerry-draws-his-last.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.50.174.123 (talk) 21:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

indeed; the above link from the Guardian does clearly state that he is of Lebanese origin "Barbera was born in New York to Lebanese parents and began his career as a delivery boy for a tailor." i think it would be unfair to deny this truly fact!! moreover, i presume the Guardian is respectable enough on releasing correct statements. on the other hand, there are sevel links refering that William Hanna was also Lebanese as well: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/87636 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SXnVuf5lk http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=2667135791 http://www.proud2blebanese.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.173.234.103 (talk) 13:45, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I've seen a documentary called Goodbye Mr. Flowers in Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI-o4pQziGU&feature=kp) depicting the life of a former Hanna-Barbera worker, Ramell Stafford, who mentioned that Joseph Barbera told him he was of Catalan descent, and that in Catalan language Ramell means "bouquet of flowers", so he called Stafford "Mr. Flowers". Makes sense to me. And no, I really doubt that too many Lebanese are called Barbera, as Lebanese people normally have Arab names and Barbera doesn't sound too Arab to me. Plus, only in the mind of a complete ignorant Arab, Greek, south Slavic and Latin names may be similar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.15.57.184 (talk) 17:55, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Barbera is a very common family name in Lebanon : it is as well the name of a known town. It is even THE Lebanese name since it is became wide spread since early christianity via Saint Barbara (please note that "e" and "a" are same letter in semite languages : old lebanese - aramaic and phoenician - and new lebaneses - the spoken lebanese arabic dialect) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Barbara I agree this is not definitive proof Barbera is of direct lebanese immigrants descent. But namewise, Joseph is one of the most common names in Lebanon. Please note too that Sicily was originally founded by Phoenicians/Lebanese (and by founded I don't mean they built a hut there, they built the actual old cities, number of archeological references are endless). This matter deserves a further investigation. If I have new inputs, I will be happy to share and inform.

I care not for the ancestry but it should be noted that the Lebanese all in all are not Arab ! The misconception/misnomer is due to due to numerous aspects amongst which politics, religion ... played major roles ! Zlogicalape (talk) 09:44, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

His father was Vincenzo Barbera, born on 25 Oct 1885 in Castelvetrano, Sicily, to parents Lorenzo Barbera and Francesca Morici, who themseves were born in Castelvetrano. His mother was Francesca Calvacca, born on 4 Feb 1892 in Sciacca, Sicily, to parents Giuseppe Calvacca and Maria Monterosa, who were also born in Sicily. All of these names are normal Sicilian names. There is nothing in his genealogy to suggest Lebanese ancestry. The claim that he was of Lebanese ancestry should be weakened to say only that some people have asserted that. No evidence has been presented that he himself did.Gmalcolms2 (talk) 13:15, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Someone explain why Forbes states that Moise Safra was 79. Born into a wealthy Syrian Jewish banking family in Aleppo? https://www.forbes.com/profile/moise-safra/ Tariq afflaq (talk) 13:46, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Death

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/archives/2006_12.html#002562 He just died today, not much detail is out though

IPA Correction

The Italian pronunciation of the tonic vowel is with a closed /e/, not the open /ɛ/. The Sicilian pronunciation needs checking.Jerchower 12:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Death Bump

On Adult Swim, unlike usual comedic bumps, they had one on (I believe December 18th) stating his birth to death years. Does anyone have the time of death, as it seemed to pop up at random in between 2 of Adult Swims normal laughable bumps. 24.91.155.164 04:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Rather than "among others", I'd prefer seeing "Yogi Bear" up in the middle of the cited TV animations. It actually comes to mind first when I hear the name Hanna-Barbera studios. Anyone else out there agree? For reference, see the YOGI BEAR article in Wiki. Those of us a certain age have the ring tone "Smarter than the average bear" embedded in our psyches.Cstromek 19:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Emmys

Wasnt his rememberence was in the emmys

half sicilian or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 91.138.118.122 (talk) 10:16, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

At least half Sicilian. See his bio, personal section. In his autobio he doesn't mention being Lebanese. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:36, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

He was fully Sicilian. Both of his parents were born in Sicily, to parents who also were born in Sicily, and everyone had normal Sicilian names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmalcolms2 (talk • contribs) 13:10, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Marriage date

On page 53 of his autobio, he says he married Dorothy while working at Van Beuren Studios, so this had to be between 1934-1936. On page 58 he says they were married a year before he went to Cal, so the marriage must have been about 1935-36. They separated before he went to Cal but got together again soon afterwards (p. 66). They almost separated again shortly thereafter but stayed together after they learned she was pregnant (p. 90). The strain of TV cartoon production finally broke them up for good (p. 129). — Rlevse • Talk • 01:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Taft sale price

Some refs say the sale price was reported at $25 million, but the Barbera autobiography says it was $12, so I went with that. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:54, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Fires and quakes

Fires, a bane of Southern California life, affected his house four times, pp. 202-203 of autobio. He was also the victim of at least two major earhtquakes. The second one required his house be torn down (Jan 17, 1994 quake), pp. 203-206. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Pre-FAC comments

As requested by User:Rlevse, here is a pre-FAC review:

• "As a young child, Barbera lived, attended college, and began his career in New York City." Contradictory, how could Barbera be a young child when he attended college and worked his career?
• "$12 million" Per MOS, common currency symbols do not need to be linked.
• "Joseph Barbera (pronounced bar-BEAR-uh) was born in the Little Italy (Lower East Side) section of Manhattan, New York, to immigrants of Sicilian descent, but moved to Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York at the age of four months." "but"-->and, the second phrase does not contradict the first. and moved phoentics to lead
• "Larry landed in Sicily" More information please.
• "Dorothy Earl, his first wife, was his high school sweetheart and in their senior year they were named "Romeo and Juliet"." Instead of "named", called or referred to would be better.
• "Even Additionally, he once told of a letter that he wrote to Walt Disney asking for advice about getting started in the animation industry." Extra word.
• "While working at a bank his magazine drawings of single cartoons, not comic strips, began to be published in Redbook, Saturday Evening Post, and especially Collier's." Comma after bank. Why "especially Collier's"? left question on your talk
• "Disney wrote back, saying he would call Barbera during an upcomping trip to New York, but the call never took place." Typo: "upcomping"-->upcoming.
• "He found that Los Angeles was suffering just as much from the Great Depression as was Brooklyn and almost returned." Returned where?
• "Modeled after the Puss Gets the Boot characters with slight differences, the series followed Jerry the pesky rodent who continuously outwitted his feline foe, Tom." Comma after Jerry.
• "Critics were often less than kind to the change from lush, detailed animation to flat characters with repetitive motion." How about: "Critics criticized the change..."
• "He was also one of the first animators to realize the enormous potential of television." Who is he?
• "n 1992 Barbera met with Michael Jackson, who is an avid cartoon fan,"
• Date linking is deprecated by the MOS.
• "His wife Sheila was at his side when he died,[54] and three children by a previous marriage also survived him:" "by"-->from.
• "and something they'd only done twice before; for Harry Goz in 2003 and Sam Loeb in 2005" No contractions, please. Only is POV.
• "for Harry Goz in 2003 and Sam Loeb in 2005"—There's no period at the end.
• Once again, check for overlinking of shows.

Dabomb87 (talk) 20:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Joseph Barbera ethnicity.

Alright, some people claim he was Italian, others claim he was Lebanese. First, there are many sources saying he was Lebanese, while you say he was Italian since you claim he said so. So anyways, the best way to deal with this, is to simply leave out his ethnicity. Its that simple. You don't just throw sources out because you don't agree with them and then claim a book you read is The source!Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to find a better source than his autobio. It never mentions Lebanese and says his family is from Sicily. See note on your page about how the Lebanese bit all started in an obit when he died. He spoke Italian for pete's sake, not Arabic. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

All I'm saying is simply leave out that small bit because some people think he was Lebanese and some think he was Italian (I'm gonna take a neutral POV). Do you have a source or anything that explains how the Lebanese thing started? Even if he spoke Italian, doesn't mean he did not speak any other languages besides it and English. To be neutral and fair, we should simply leave out his ethnicity.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 21:07, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You really should read his autobio. He makes a big deal of being Italian (see all the page cites I list on this talk page). The Lebanese thing started when he died. One, and only one, obit said he was Lebanese. All others say he was Italian. The problem has simply snowballed from there. I'm sure if he spoke Arabic/Lebanese he'd have mentioned it. Even if he's part Lebanese, which is highly doubtful, it's so insignificant to him - if it were trye - he didn't mention it in his own book. Everything indicates this Lebanese thing is mere journalistic error. He mentions no other ehtnicity than Italian, specifically Sicilian. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a link/source that, that is how the Lebanese thing started? A lot of sources out there state he was Lebanese. You claim in his book he says he's Italian. Bottom line is, many sources claim he was Lebanese (I had already posted quite a few) while you say his book says he's Italian. Solution? Leave out the ethnicity bit. That is what should be done. Or, add that many sources claim he was Lebanese along with the book claiming he was Italian.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I answered how it got started twice already. The difference is that Barbera himself only says he's Italian. It's hard to trump that. He's highly unlikely to be wrong about it. Your sources are other people claiming he's Lebanese, which is far more error prone than the person himself. You changed the article to say he was only Lebanese yet he clearly many times during his life said he was Italian/Sicilian. Can you find anywhere Barbera himself says he was Lebanese as opposed to others claiming he was Lebanese. It's not like Barbera said he's half and half and someone is trying to cut out half. Barbera only says he's Italian. Why can't you accept that? He states the village his parents, grandparents etc come from in Sicily, not Lebanon. You're essentially claiming others know Barbera's ethnicity better than he knows it himself. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm saying that for people to verify that he truly was Italian, they would have to go to a library or buy the book, since that is where you claim he spoke about his ethnicity. Almost no one will go to a library or buy the book just to find out (Many people wouldn't even be able to go to a library or buy the book); They will rather do a simple internet search. Now, doing an internet search will bring up many articles claiming he was Lebanese instead. So again, if you have a source that the whole Lebanese thing started in his obit, then post it! And for the third time already, we should leave out his ethnicity to be fair or state that many sources claim he was Lebanese along with a book that claims he was Italian. Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 22:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Books are among the most reliable sources. The Internet can be very unreliable, though not all sites of course. See WP:RS. Removing all ethnicity claims when we his very reliable auto bio is not the way to go. Your claim that all Internet sites claim he's Lebanese is ludicrous. Here's just one that says he's Italian. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I did not say that all internet sites claim he was Italian. Read it again! Furthermore, if you don't want to remove his ethnicity, then we should add the Lebanese claim since Many sources and sites claim he was Lebanese. Again, Not everyone has access to the book! So simply stating that he was Italian without making a mention of his Lebanese ethnicity, is Itself not the way to go. I'm being very flexible here, it is You who's not helping resolve this issue!!Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 22:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

RfC

Resolved

 – Editors all agree on subject's ethnicity.

Joseph Barbera ethnicity. User Rlevse claims that in a book, Barbera says his ethnicity is Italian. He has not provided any other links besides one to that book that he says is Barbera's autobio. However, I've provided many reliable sources stating that Barbera had Lebanese ethnicity. All have been rejected. I suggested that Barbera's ethnicity be left out since its a source of controversy, user Rlevse simply rejected it. So I then suggested that the claims of Barbera's Lebanese ethnicity be added. It seems that that has also been rejected.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 00:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment. I thought this might be interesting and easy to resolve by doing some Google searches... turns out I was wrong. There are three sources listed by Knight Prince - Sage Veritas

• The first is a Google book that has a short entry about Barbera, where he states his grandmother was a traditional Lebenese cook. I don't think that is a reliable source that Barbera has Lebanese parents... especially since the book also has him talking about his other grandmother being an Irish chef!
• The second is an article from a high school newspaper. That's not a reliable source.
• The third is a travel site. Not a reliable source for a person's biography... especially since the website also lists Barbera elsewhere as being Sicilian...

However, a link from the last source goes to this article from The Daily Telegraph, which states he has Lebanese parents. As far as I can tell, this is the only reliable, impartial secondary source that states that. There are a number of Lebanese-specific websites that lists him as being Lebanese.

On the other hand, his own autobiography states his parents were Italian (and no, contrary to beliefs stated above, we do not need a link to an online version of the book in order to rely on it). That is supported by reliable online secondary sources, such as this article from The Independent. Most of the other online sources either lists Wikipedia as its source or are Italian-specific websites, similar to the Lebanese-specific websites.

Given the above, and given that his autobiography would be best souce possible, I suggest leaving it as is, with the possible additional comment in parenthesis that The Daily Telegraph stated his parents were Lebanese. Keep in mind that I haven't read the autobiography myself, but Rkevse is a reliable editor and administrator, and the issue is easily confirmed by checking the book out a local library. Singularity42 (talk) 04:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - A quick search of my own backs up Singularity's results. I agree that he should be referred to as Italian; I would not be opposed to a parenthetical statement regarding the Daily Telegraph's claim of Lebanese ancestry, but it doesn't seem really necessary to include one. Nutiketaiel (talk) 14:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

To user Singularity42, user Rlevse is anything but reliable. Especially when he started warning me about my edits on another article for no reason (there was nothing wrong with them), (see my talk page archive). Furthermore, you say that Italian websites state that Barbera's ethnicity is Italian just as Lebanese websites state his ethnicity is Lebanese. You also said that The Daily Telegraph stated his ethnicity as being Lebanese. I may agree with you, but I would propose stating that his ethnicity is questionable with some claiming it is Lebanese and some claiming Italian. That would be fair. Otherwise, leaving it as is, is not NPOV.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 21:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

You asked for comments from uninvolved editors, and you got them. I'm sorry you disagree with them, but that can't be helped. To paraphrase what I said last week, 1) there is one reliable, impartial secondary source that says his parents were Lebanese, and 2) there are multiple reliable, impartial secondary sources that says his parents were Italian, including his autobiography. I would think Barbera knew the ethnicity of his own parents... I'm sorry you feel that Rlevse is untrustworthy. Although most Wikipedia editors respect Rlevse, you are very much entitled to your opinion. If you do not trust what Rlevse says about Barbera's autobiography, you can easily check the book out of your local public library and look it up to confirm. Singularity42 (talk) 21:59, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I have no problem with what you said and am not questioning your comment, for which I thank you. Having said that, I was simply putting ideas in the open about how best to resolve this issue. I hope its ok. :) Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 22:06, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

No offence taken. Singularity42 (talk) 22:12, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I have added a note in the infobox stating that The Daily Telegraph claims he is of Lebanese ethnicity. Before you remove it, please discuss it. The note I've added should end this dispute. Thank you.Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 00:26, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is another site stating Barbera's Lebanese ethnicity. And no, its not a Lebanese website. http://cartoon-coloring.com/joseph-barbera/. Might have to change the ethnicity to include both Lebanese and/or Italian. Simply because he was born in Little Italy, does not autmatically rule him out as having Lebanese origins. Little Italy is made up of different people. Not just Italians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk • contribs) 16:38, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Improved the infobox and note so they are more NPOV. If you have a problem with the way they are, please discuss it here before reverting either. The way they are now is very NPOV. Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 17:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

You are the one pushing the POV. You keep saying these other webs sites that mention only Lebabnese ancestry are know more than Barbera himself, who only says he's Italain. You asked for more opinions and you just don't like the answers and are trying to weasel around it. Barbera would know best if he's Italian or Lebanese and he said he's only Italian. Go check out the autobio like I did if you dont' want to believe those who read the book that he himself wrote. — Rlevse • Talk • 18:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, because I took the other editors opinions into consideration, I accepted leaving the article as is! You just don't like the Fact that some websites state that he was Lebanese! If You have a problem with it, Take it up with Them! The note I added IS NPOV. Your Insistence that no mention of the Lebanese claims be mentioned is VERY much a POV and is Very much Against NPOV! Good grief! The note I included IS NPOV. It mentions Both the Lebanese and Italian claims. Your only problem with it is that it mentions the Lebanese claims too! If anyone is pushing a POV it is You. So stop with the childishness please. Thank you! Knight Prince - Sage Veritas (talk) 19:45, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, from here and your talk page on another issue, I see you think it's okay for you to edit and tell others not to. I'm going to go through this one more time. I thoroughly researched this issue when I got this to FA. His autobio is the best source. Nowhere prior to death does anyone claim he's Lebanese. Then one obit did for an unknown reason, which NO SOURCE ANYWHERE has provided proof for. They just keep quoting this one erroneous source. What proof do we have he's Italian - himself, his family who grew up in Sicily, and that they spoke Italian. Nowhere in his autobio does he mention Lebanon or speaking Arabic nor any connection thereto at all. Can you provide any actual connection to Lebanon? No, you can't, but I can provide ample connection to Italy. It's also clear from your edits you are focused on pushing an Arab-POV in your edits. Give it a rest and accept that he's Italian. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for proving my point, you can rv but others can't. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:27, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

<outdent>If it helps at all, when I researched this to respond to the RfC, I noticed that most of the articles indicating Barbera's Italian ethnicity indicated specific info about Barbera's father. Nothing similar in The Daily Telegraph article other than a one-liner at the end of the article saying he has Lebanese enthnicity. Personally, I just think The Daily Telegraph got it wrong, but no one is really interested in correcting a 2006 article, and my personal opinion doesn't count. I think the consensus from earlier comments and the RfC is clear: keep it as listing Italian ethnicity (with a possiblity that a note be included that The Daily Telegraph stated his ethnicity is Lebanese - which there is no consensus about). Given the autobiography (which really, should trump all, especially as it has been confirmed), the specific details in the other sources, and the lack of details with the other sources, the consensus is the article should state Italian ethnicity. I hope this helps. Singularity42 (talk) 21:37, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Precisely, the massive details on this should trump other sources which merely keep quoting each other with no proof. And in his autobio, he clearly says both sides of the family are Italian. I agree with Singularity, my research into this readily shows the one source made a simple mistake and its unfortunately be copied without verification all too often. Also note Knight is in debate on this own talk page with User:XLR8TION on this same issue but a different article. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:41, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Would anyone be interested in emailing The Daily Telegraph to ask them where they got their sources from? Personally, I think a person's statement of their own parents' nationality trumps what a secondary source says, even if it is reliable. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:44, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I actually did email their editorial department, back when I first commented here. No reply yet. I don't really expect one - it's a 2006 obituary with not much controversy attached to it (other than this fun debate :) )Singularity42 (talk) 21:45, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like the consensus has swung in favor of his own autobio trumping an unsubstantiated secondary source. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see these verifiable links:

http://www.american.com/archive/2006/december/joseph-barbera-an-appreciation/article_print

http://www.niaf.org/research/contribution.asp

http://books.google.com/books?id=gy-FsWq_tOEC&pg=PA155&dq=joseph+barbera+sicilian#v=onepage&q=sicilian&f=false (Page 155) [Book was written by Iwao Takamoto, one of Barbera's closest friends and colleagues)

http://books.google.com/books?id=LAzWAAAAMAAJ&dq=joseph+barbera+sicilian&q=sicilian#search_anchor (Joseph Barbera's autobiography, "My life in 'toons: from Flatbush to Bedrock in under a century" By Joseph Barbera Page 128 - HE HIMSELF SAYS HE IS SICILIAN!!!!) READ!--XLR8TION (talk)

Case closed. Mr Barbera's very own words and Mr. Takamoto's memoir where he makes mention of Barbera's proud Sicilian heritage means he is Italian and NOT Lebanese.--XLR8TION (talk) 01:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

• Noting that Knight Prince apologized and says he now agrees with me — Rlevse • Talk • 03:03, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I make a motion that hereon in, we say that everyone whose bio is recorded on Wikipedia is Lebanese in order to avoid conflict with people who insist that those who say they AREN'T Lebanese, really ARE! You follow? That would mean that people like Eleanor Roosevelt, Jackie Robinson, and Lucille Ball are really, Lebanese, even though their book bios say otherwise. Problem solved! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.151.233 (talk) 00:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Joseph Barbera

NOTE: pasted from User talk:Rlevse

I have removed Mr. Barbera's name from List of Lebanese people‎. I have provided a quote from Mr. Barbera's 1994 autobiography where he says he is Sicilian and his mother was born in Sicily. I also added a quote from Iwao Takamoto's (creator of Scooby Doo) autobiography (he was a close friend and colleague of Mr. Barbera) where again he mention's he is Sicilian. User Knight Prince - Sage Veritas refuses to accept the fact that he is Sicilian and keeps posting his name on the list when he doesn't qualify as he does not have Lebanese ancestry. I will remove the entry and I have provided valid and verifiable proof. I would like your input and like to request that user Knight Prince - Sage Veritas stop adding him to this list. I will remove the entry, PERIOD! Mr. Barbera's own words are more valid than Internet gossip.--XLR8TION (talk) 01:46, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Totally agree, read my extensive comments on Barbera's talk. I read the whole autobio when I got it to FA. Knight got indef'd by JC today for calling me a racist. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

• • Thank you for response. Regarding archiving I have never done it and don't know how to do it. If you have any tips or a link on how to do so, I will gladly proceed in archiving.--XLR8TION (talk) 01:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I'll start it and you should be able to figure it out from there. If you have questions, ask. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

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Joseph Barbera (1911–2006) was an influential American animator, director, producer, storyboard artist, and cartoon artist. Born in New York City, after working odd jobs and as a banker, Barbera joined Van Beuren Studios in 1932 and subsequently Terrytoons in 1936. He met his lifelong collaborator William Hanna while working for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer in 1937 and soon began producing animated shorts such as the Tom and Jerry series. In 1957, after MGM dissolved their animation department, they co-founded Hanna–Barbera, which became the most successful television animation studio in the business, producing programs such as The Flintstones, The Huckleberry Hound Show, Top Cat, The Jetsons, Scooby-Doo, The Quick Draw McGraw Show, The Smurfs, Wacky Races and Yogi Bear. Hanna and Barbera won seven Academy Awards and eight Emmy Awards and their shows have a global audience of over 300 million people, with translations in more than 20 languages. (more...)

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