Talk:John Russell (Cambuslang footballer)

Requested move 23 July 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved two per Cuchullain; there's no consensus to move John Russell (footballer, born 1923):

• John Russell (Scottish footballer) → John Russell (Cambuslang footballer)
• John Russell (1920s footballer) → John Russell (Dumbarton footballer)

No such user (talk) 08:45, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

---

• John Russell (Scottish footballer) → ?
• John Russell (1920s footballer) → ?
• John Russell (footballer, born 1923) → ?
• John Russell (Queen's Park footballer) → ?

– This page's John Russell (Scottish footballer) would be properly disambiguated from John Russell (Irish footballer) if he were the sole Scottish footballer named John Russell. However, in addition to the sole Scottish player whose article is titled Johnny Russell (footballer), there are four Scottish footballers named John Russell, only one of whom, John Russell (footballer, born 1923), has a researched birth year. Among those four players, only John Russell (Scottish footballer) is identified by the qualifier as Scottish, while the other three are inconsistently qualified by birth year, football club and decade of football activity. Should those other three be at least identified in the qualifier as also Scottish? Suggestions are sought for more-consistent qualifiers. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:14, 23 July 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. DrStrauss talk 17:51, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 12:20, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Year of birth should be used where available, but isn't in three of the four cases. "1920s footballer" isn't much use either because the Queen's Park footballer also played then. I would suggest moving the "Scottish footballer" article to John Russell (Cambuslang footballer) and the "1920s footballer" to John Russell (Dumbarton footballer). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 05:38, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

• Some suggestions would be helpful... GiantSnowman 12:21, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

• Suggestions:

• John Russell (Scottish footballer) → John Russell (Cambuslang footballer)
• John Russell (1920s footballer) → John Russell (Dumbarton footballer)
• John Russell (footballer, born 1923) → John Russell (Kilmarnock footballer)
• John Russell (Queen's Park footballer) → Keep as is

For the 2nd and 3rd John Russells, also create redirects for the other clubs they played for. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:01, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Established precedent is to use the year of birth where available. There's no need to move the footballer born 1923. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 17:14, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

And that's where it falls down, esp. with two people being born very close together. Think of it from the reader's POV: Was that guy born in 1920? Or 1922? Or was it a bit later? Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 06:58, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguating by year of birth is standard and preferred. Leave that article as it is. GiantSnowman 07:05, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

If we leave John Russell (footballer, born 1923) as the sole footballer with a birth year as part of his qualifier, while disambiguating the other Scottish footballers via club names, then the renaming and elimination of the simple form John Russell (Scottish footballer) would leave John Russell (Irish footballer) as the sole footballer with a national identification in his qualifier. Since he is a current figure with a known birthdate, it might make sense to include him among the qualifier revisions and propose John Russell (Irish footballer) → John Russell (footballer, born 1985). —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 15:21, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree with this suggestion. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 15:23, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

• Support moves to these locations:

• John Russell (Scottish footballer) → John Russell (Cambuslang footballer)
• John Russell (1920s footballer) → John Russell (Dumbarton footballer)

Do not move John Russell (footballer, born 1923) or John Russell (Queen's Park footballer), they both have adequate disambiguators (the birth year is preferable per WP:NCSP, a club name is acceptable when birth year isn't known/is ambiguous). Redirect John Russell (Scottish footballer) to the dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:13, 1 August 2017 (UTC)