Talk:Issy Wong

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 15:33, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

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• ... that cricketer Issy Wong can solve a Rubik's Cube in seconds? Source: [1] "Issy Wong doesn't just make solving a Rubik's Cube in a matter of seconds look easy, she makes it sound like the simplest thing in the world too."
  • ALT1:... that Issy Wong was the youngest player in the 2019 Women's Cricket Super League? Source: [2] "Wong, the youngest player to play in the Women’s Cricket Super League..."

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Berivan İçen

Created by Joseph2302 (talk). Self-nominated at 14:45, 27 September 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: main hook preferred Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I'll aim to get QPQ done today- real life has been busy. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Hawkeye7 QPQ now done, apologies for the delay in doing it. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:25, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Good to go. Main hook preferred. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:04, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Need sources linking her family

The gwulo.com sources [3], [4] are biographies of the people, but don't demonstrate that they are actually related to Issy Wong. Also, not convinced it's a reliable source, since the website is user-generate. Also, the dead link [5] looks like user-generated content too. Does anyone have decent sources for her family, in a similar vein to the SMH source, which explicitly lists Donald Anderson as a great-uncle and Phyllis Nolasco Da Silva as a great-grandmother. Saying "X is related to Y, and X is related to Wong, so Y must be" seems like WP:SYNTH to me. And either way, we need proper reliable sources for the information, not a user-generated website. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:39, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Direct mention of Wong's name in all of the sources for the paragraph about the "Nolasco de Silva" family is not necessary. See WP:MINREF. The sources establish that all of the other persons mentioned in the paragraph are part of the Nolasco da Silva family, which the sources also confirm was and is well known and prominent in Macau. The fact that Wong's great grandmother's married surname was "Nolasco da Silva" (see the SMH article, a reliable source) is sufficient to establish Wong's connection with that family, through her great grandfather. It's not as if the family name were Smith, Jones, or even Wong for that matter. It's a double-barrelled Portuguese name of a family that lived in what, 100-200 years ago, was a very small community. To say that there can have been only one "Nolasco de Silva" family in Macau a century or two ago is not WP:SYNTH. It's just obvious, especially to people from Macau, and an example of Wikipedia:You don't need to cite that the sky is blue. Do you seriously believe that anyone's going to challenge what the paragraph says as inaccurate? Bahnfrend (talk) 13:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

All the family information except that in the SMH source is sourced to gwulo.com, which looks like user-generated content and not a reliable source. Their website is clearly one person's pet project: [6]. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:05, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

No it isn't. The SMH article, a reliable source, establishes that Wong's great grandmother played a prominent role in the anti-Japanese resistance in Southern China during World War II, and was named "Nolasco da Silva". The paragraph in the article about Wong mentions only two other members of that family. One of them lived in Macau, and was named Pedro Nolasco da Silva for the whole of his life. Numerous reliable sources cited in the article about him confirm that that was his name, and that he was a prominent person in Macau. The other member of the family, Isabella Leong, was born in Macau and named "Luísa Isabella Nolasco da Silva Leong Lok-yau" at birth. The cited source for that birthplace and name is a book published by Museum of the Orient, a reliable source. The other sources used in the articles, which you claim are not reliable sources, are completely consistent with the reliably sourced information that all of them were or are Nolasco da Silvas. There is no synthesis. What you are doing is a form of disruptive editing. You are trying to create doubt where none exists. The Wong article does not suggest any particular relationship between her and the other persons, except that they are all members of the prominent Nolasco da Silva family, which the undoubtedly reliable sources confirm. In essence, what you are asserting is that unless a reliable source can be found for the statement "there is only one Nolasco da Silva family in Macau", then the three persons are not related. But it is unlikely there will ever be such a source, because to a Macanese the statement would be so obvious that it doesn't need to be stated. See again Wikipedia:You don't need to cite that the sky is blue. Bahnfrend (talk) 14:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

agree with Joseph here. I think we do need a clear ref that there is only one family with this name in Macau, or that Wong is related to them. There is far too much detail about really-distant possible relatives in this article and I'd cut most of it is it can't be better sourced. Spike 'em (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

And by the terms of MINREF, this is contentious, so you need to provide a ref.Spike 'em (talk) 20:27, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

It's not contentious at all. A reliable source confirms that the subject is descended from a Macau resident whose surname was Nolasco da Silva. All of the sources, reliable or not, refer to "the Nolasco da Silva family" of Macau, not to "one of the Nolasco da Silva families" of Macau. Without in any admitting that any alterations were required, I have made a minor amendment to one of the sentences in the article, and have also added some reliable source citations. As to the limited information provided about a few relatives, I would suggest that you look at some of the Wikipedia bios of movie stars, etc, that go into excruciating detail about their families, eg Helena Bonham Carter, Cara Delevingne. There's no reason why a cricketer should be treated any differently, especially if one of her relatives was a cricketer himself. Bahnfrend (talk) 12:37, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

That is a complete stretch to say that there is only "one" family with that name. I've removed the sections that show no clear relation to Issy Wong. Just saying they are (possibly) part of a huge family tree is meaningless. I don't care about what HBC's article says (WP:OTHER); I'm interested in this one. Spike 'em (talk) 12:53, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

And looking at HBC, it only includes direct ancestors including parents, grand parents and 1 great-grand parent. No mention of vague connections to a family and some relatives that there are no clear links to. Spike 'em (talk) 12:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Agree, we don't need an entire family history. Saying that she's related to the Nolasco da Silva family is enough for an article about her, if you want to write a detailed family history then create the Nolasco da Silva family and put it there. This is an article about a cricketer, not a genealogy. If we include all that content, then the "Early life" section is as big as all the content on her cricket career, which is the things she's actually notable for. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:00, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Could also use things like Categories to link together members of the family (dunno if this is a common thing to do) but to create Category:Nolasco da Silva family member you'd need to create a well-sourced article to show the family is notable and have sources to show that each member is linked to it (again, using more that "they've got the name and have lived in Macau"). Spike 'em (talk) 13:43, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Quotes

MOS:QUOTE says that Brief quotations of copyrighted text may be used to illustrate a point, establish context, or attribute a point of view or idea. While quotations are an indispensable part of Wikipedia, try not to overuse them. Using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style. This article was using an excessive number of quotes, which didn't add encyclopedic value- I have removed a number of them to comply with the MOS/the purpose of an encyclopedia. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:10, 28 July 2022 (UTC)