Talk:Isicathamiya

Merge

It seems from the two pages that Mbube is a different style, but the Mbube page seems to refer to Ladysmith Black Mambazo as popularizers. Did they popularize both? --Slashme 12:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

The style overall hasn't had a single name; instead, the name seems to reflect a perspective on the music that changes with time more than it depends on the music. Over time the style has been called isikhunzi, mbube (after the song came out), mbombing (during World War II), isikhwela Jo, and isicathamiya. Joseph Shabalala (the leader of Ladysmith Black Mambazo) promotes using the name "isicathamiya" to describe its whole history.

The names aren't exactly equivalent -- for example, there is quite a contrast between isicathamiya ("tiptoeing") and isikhwela Jo ("attacking", and I have no idea where the "Jo" comes from) or mbombing ("bombing"). But mbube doesn't make a useful distinction, as it only refers to "music that is kind of like a certain song from the 30's". rspeer 04:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

theyr not the same thing, you cannot merge them, who proposed this!? they may seem the same thing on paper, but you can never truly put music on paper, so it is irrelavant.

Theyr about as similar as rock and punk, sure they both have guitars, drums, basses and singers, but theyr different very different. Noise is one thing, sound is another thing. Philc 0780 23:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

That's interesting. Could you elaborate on what the difference is? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 03:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Technically, mbube is sung very powerfully and strongely (see the Ladysmith Black Mambazo albums Amabutho or Gospel Songs), whilst isicathamiya tends to be a softer version. Perhaps you can move the current Mbube page to Mbube (genre) and create a new Mbube (song) page, with a disambiguation page? LBM 02:01, 26 March 2006 (GMT)

Removed 'merge' tag

I've removed the merge tag, as isicathamiya and mbube and quite different; like it reads above, it is not the same style, even though the groups tend to be male and sing a capella. I've also removed the merge tag from the mbube article, and I've created a Mbube disambiguation page; on here, a small description of the Mbube song is there, with the previous Mbube article moved to Mbube (genre). Some of the content on the latter article was invalid for the style; therefore I have moved it to Isicathamiya. I notice there is a page entitled Iscathamiya - I will try to get this one deleted/merged into Isicathamiya, as it is mostly the same information.

-- LBM 11 April 2006, 18:40 (GMT - or BST..)

General Question

I'm just curious about some of the sounds particular to iscathamiya. My only exposure is really Ladysmith Black Mambazo, so I don't know how much the actual sounds tend to vary from group to group. But in all of the recordings I've heard there's a sound someone makes that sounds like (sorry for the spelling) "Sheeye Che..E...Che!" or variations on that. I was wondering what that was. Sometimes it comes before a change in the harmony, but sometimes not. Is it some sort of direction, does it have a rough translation?24.214.198.98 16:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)JBW

The Sheeye Che..E...Che sound is used to signify the traditional dancing that goes with the song. It isn't a phrase, but an "exclamation", if one could call it that. As it signifies the start of a dance, it is used more (to some degree) on stage, often before the group starts dancing. I think the same applies with the grrr..grrr stuff on the songs as well.--LBM | ^{TALK TO ME} 13:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)