Talk:Insurgency in Punjab, India/Archive 1

Archive 1

Effect of Operation Bluestar

I've changed the text to read "The New Delhi Police were ineffective in stopping the rioters". Saying "did little to stop" implies that they chose to do little. Saying "could do little to stop" implies they wanted to stop, but did not have the resources. My version does not imply either, but only that they did not stop the rioting. I think that's far better, unless you can cite references one way or the other. (PS, I have no stake in this discussion other than noticing a minor revert 'altercation' going on :) ) -- Ch'marr 02:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Sikh Conflict is very controversial in India. It depends from which angle are you seeing it. You can't form a conclusion on a conflict that is more than 50 years old by writting a small article. Especially when India is being accused by Human Rights Groups of mass scale killings/cremations/fake encounter/false flag operations during that era. The article buys the explanation from an Opressor and not from the victims. There is no wrong in presenting the controversial Indian side but presence of opinion of the other sides is crucial for the enumeration of the conflict. --- HSingh30 00:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Calling someone an oppressor is not exactly a neutral point of view --- Skapur 23:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

How would you justify opression and still call it "neutral"? Isn't mass cremation of Sikh youth oppression? It is a Gendercide. Your tacitc is to assert the opposite by use of misinformed debate, and is nothing short of fictious propaganda aimed at denial of human values to a group that suffered.

Whitewash

This article completely whitewashes the acts of Khalistani militants. Where is the information about gruesome acts? 59.164.186.29 (talk) 16:53, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

This is true. The Operation Bluestar description and language is utterly biased and not up to the standards of wikipedia. This is not a scholastic discussion on the realities of the situation.

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was do not merge into Green Revolution in India. -- Flipper24 (talk) 07:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

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I propose moving the 'Green Revolution' section of this article into the 'Green Revolution in India' article, as it seems to have precious little relevance in this article, and unbalances it all. There will still be room for a paragraph or too explaining it and its relevance to this article, however, the current length seems a little extreme. Flipper24 (talk) 08:38, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose: two reasons. 1) this section is totally unreferenced, whereas Green Revolution in India is referenced. 2) there is a need to have a section on green revolution in this article also. Ideally, it should be a summary of the 'Green Revolution in India' mentioning its connection with 'Punjab insurgency'. Even if there is no impact, that should be mentioned.--GDibyendu (talk) 08:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose, Agree with GDibyendu. Also some POV has crept into thsi article's Gree revolution section. --Deepak D'Souza 09:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
• Comment The entire section, except the first paragraph, was an extremely blatant copyright violation from here.[1] Another large section was taken from here.[2] Both were removed, which moots this discussion, I think. There is a need for a good Green Revolution section in this article, imo, but not like this. Priyanath ^talk 15:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks like that's that then. Proposal has been archived. Flipper24 (talk) 07:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Merger discussion

I propose this article be merged with Khalistan movement. Both articles have almost same structure and the other article is more detailed. Surinderjeet Singh (talk) 15:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

• Support: This article has no new point to add Surinderjeet Singh (talk) 16:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
• Support: but I think Khalistan movement should be merged into Punjab insurgency, the Khalistan movement was the result of a multitude of factors and it is part of the larger unrest in the punjab.--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 01:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Addition to the Bibliography section

Some time ago I published a paper on the Punjab insurgency in the European Police College (CEPOL) e-Library collection. (Kiss, Peter A. (July, 2009). "Counterinsurgency in the Punjab - A Lesson for Europe" (PDF). Bramshill: European Police College (CEPOL) e-Library. {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite journal requires |journal= (help)) Recently I inserted a link to the paper in this article's Bibliograpy section, because I felt that it would shed some further light on the subject. Some sharp-tongued critics objected to it on the grounds of self-promotion and lack of relevance, so I am soliciting views on the subject - should the link be included, or not.--Peterakiss (talk) 17:32, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

thanks for taking the time to open a discussion here. and thanks for calling me "sharp-tongued"! it is an epithet to which i aspire to deserve. i will certainly look at the papers in detail since you're asking so nicely.— alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 17:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

this is the place the papers were published, yes? is there some kind of information somewhere on what their acceptance policies are? is there peer review? it's hard to tell, as it says that all members can submit papers, but it doesn't say anything about what happens to them after they're submitted.— alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 17:48, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

That is the place. I can speak of close to two years ago, when I published there last. Basically, blind peer review by two subject matter experts is the standard. You submit your paper through the national liaison officer (generally an official at a national police academy or college), and he sees that the standard is met. If the paper was already published in a local scholarly forum with a similar review standard, it is accepted after a brief internal CEPOL review. If original - no idea. The papers I published there are translations of previously published pieces (e.g. the one on Islamic fundamentalism and political violence came out in No. 2009/4 of Szakmai Szemle, a Hungarian journal on intelligence, counterintelligence and security). --Peterakiss (talk) 04:57, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

ok, i'm sorry i bugged you about it. i read a little of the papers, and they seem interesting and probably useful, and they're peer reviewed, and that's fine with me, i withdraw my objections. thanks for talking about it.— alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 05:01, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I assume this applies to the other articles as well. So, unless there will be other objections in the next few days, I will add the papers as references. And there is no need to apoligize. You were right to challenge my edits. I appreciate your positive attitude. THe "sharp tongued" adjective stands - it is well-deserved. --Peterakiss (talk) 11:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

MERGE THIS PAGE WITH THE KHALISTAN MOVEMENT PAGE

I also agree with some of the users who want to merge this page with the Khalistan Movement page! Punjab Insurgency is a small part of the Khalistan Movement! People reading this page can not get the full picture if they do not understand the whole movement. I tried my best to change this page to show the full picture but it useless to do so as the Khalistan Movement page already stated this! By doing so many biases will be put to stop as no one can stress an importance of one side, as the Khalistan Movement page will be the only sole page that can showcase these events! The Khalistan Movement also has a great deal of work done in it and has abundant references! I noticed that not many people have actively supported the other users who did this. I hope you guys can help me out on this one. Lets try to keep information as simple as possible guys!!! We do not need this page as it is already explained in detail in the Khalistan Movement page!!! Thanks for the support! P.S I am new to Wikipedia so please be nice guys lol!!! -- 84singh84 03:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

REMOVING "TIMELINES OF SIKH MILITANT REPERCUSSIONS" BECAUSE OF FALSE REFERENCES

I will be removing the categories titled "Timeline of Sikh Militant Repercussions" as they have false references. Majority of the links are not real and the ones that are real are represented falsely. -- 84singh84 06:10, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

MAJOR CHANGES TO THIS PAGE

Majority of the text has been given a biased view that favours India. I have also added many other root causes which have not been mentioned. Issues like the Anandpur Sahib Resolution and dehumanization of Sikhs have been the major reasons for this whole issue. I have also added more to each subcategory. I have also added the Sikh Genocide category. I have listed and explained exactly what happened. The group that conducted this research obtained this date from various human rights groups. the timeline was also showcasing the repercussion of Militants. I changed the title so that it does not show the timeline of the whole insurgency because it does not. I have also shown the numerous battles fought between Khalistani and Indian officials. I have added references to all my work, so this is not my opinion but the opinions of human rights organizations. Cheers! -- 84singh84 03:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I have made changes in the "Battles in Khalistan Movement" category. I have changed the name to Battles in Punjab during Punjab Insurgency as that title represents the table more clearly. I also made some changes in the wording of the table so that it has no bias toward the Indian officials. -- 84singh84 06:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Alternative to merger

Two different viewpoints have been discussed above: the first proposes the merger of this article to Khalistan movement, the second disagrees. I oppose the merger on the grounds that not all the insurgents were fighting for a separate religion-based country; some of them demanded autonomy, and some others simply claimed to have taken up arms against corrupt and unjust government. Also, the insurgency ended in the early 1990s, while the Khalistan movement is arguably still alive, though on a much minor and generally non-violent scale.

However, I do understand the argument that there is a lot of content overlap among the two articles, mainly the background and causes. So, I suggest creation of a new article that focuses on the roots of the insurgency.

• Causes of the Punjab insurgency will focus on the events and reasons that led up to, directly caused or increased the militancy (right from the issue of the distinct Sikh identity since Arya Samaj days to to the 1984 massacre). This content will be included in the other two articles in summary style
• Punjab insurgency will focus on the militancy, the police action and the human rights violations
• Khalistan movement will be limited to the secessionist movement, with a section on the insurgency in summary style)

utcursch | talk 21:25, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Causes of the Punjab insurgency and Punjab insurgency should be in the same section because both sections are quite small and relate to each other in a significant way. Jujhar.pannu (talk) 23:06, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

The section is quite small today, but I'll expand it. There are many more issues other than the ones listed in this article: some of them are listed in the article Khalistan movement. Still others are currently not present in either of the articles. utcursch | talk 23:54, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Either way please don't separate them Jujhar.pannu (talk) 00:04, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 06 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 00:40, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

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Punjab insurgency → Insurgency in Punjab – In line with other India-related articles that include Insurgency in Manipur, Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir, and Insurgency in Northeast India – Filpro (talk) 21:48, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). EdJohnston (talk) 02:36, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

• Support per WP:CONSISTENCY and WP:PRECISE; the present title implies some specific event or faction called "the Punjab insurgency", but that is not the subject of the article.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  05:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Flags

Please do not add the orange Khalsa flag which is a Sikhism flag, there is no evidence that this same flag was used by the Khalistani militants to represent Khalistan, please provide reliable source to prove that before adding it into the article. The youtube video does not establish it as a flag of Khalistan militants. this flag is a sikhism flag and it is still flown on top of gurdwaras as the flag of the Khalsa. --DBigXrayᗙ 19:05, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

CIA involvement

Why hasn’t this been covered here? Any specific reason?— Vaibhavafro ^💬 10:51, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Vaibhavafro, I guess it has probably to do with the scope of the article. If you look into the archives you will find out that Khalistan Movement is the main article that covers all of these. The info on Chohan is already there. Punjab insurgency article can be considered as a subset of that article and it deals only with the insurgency cases that happened in Punjab region. No one stops you from adding CIA involvement in Khalistan movement article, or here for that matter. DBigXrayᗙ 11:13, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

If it’s covered in the Khalistan article, then I am Ok with it not being present here. Best— Vaibhavafro ^💬 11:47, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Vaibhavafro, The reference to CIA is not added on Khalistan movement also. If you wish you can add them at both the articles, but remember to properly attribute the claim. DBigXrayᗙ 11:50, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

DBigXrayᗙ, I am not really sure where to add it. Slamming it somewhere in the middle of the article won’t make sense. Any suggestions? By the way, here are additional sources[3][4].— Vaibhavafro ^💬 12:25, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Vaibhavafro, use chronological order. I will update if any edit needed. DBigXrayᗙ 12:55, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done I have just added some content.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 14:35, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Vaibhavafro, cool. That is well written. DBigXrayᗙ 14:45, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks DBigXray. I have finished adding a few more things.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 15:01, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

edited some capitalizations, touched none of the contents 95.95.69.161 (talk) 00:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Sikh nationalist Khalistan movement - wording

@Pikachu the same: Please can you explain why you seem to think that changing "Sikh nationalist Khalistan movement" to "Sikh militant Khalistanis" is necessary. Your edit summary said Used more proper wording, that follow wikipedia policy. That is not true.

Wikipedia is based on reliable sources - and page 484 of the cited source[5] supports the original wording (though it would also support the addition of the word "militant".-- Toddy1 (talk) 12:18, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I added militant because all the organizations that took part in insurgency are/were internationally designated terrorist organizations.

They are considered militants because they followed an ideology that was religiously motivated and were not ethnic or regional chauvinists i.e. nationalists Pikachu the same (talk) 12:32, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

The cited source says "militant Sikh ethno nationalism, popularly known as the Khalistan movement". i.e. the source says that that they were ethnic nationalists.

I have changed the first sentence of the lead to say "militant Sikh nationalist Khalistan movement".-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Sir i want too meet about gursimtlran mand ohnu thokna thodi help chide ma Ludhiana to ma 22 gl nl krni aatusi hulm kro krna ki a

Sir m really upset and dimag krab kita pya sala binge muh ala tusi sath dena kam ohnda ma kru app bc bss bhaji tusi back te sport puri krni kyu ghro ta kise ni kri m thok dau ohnu kalla ni koi chkr ni 125.18.121.218 (talk) 11:12, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Content Removal

Hi, I've removed some content here, which I thought was pushing one sided POV. Just to add, as always I'm in no mood of edit warring, nor I'm a Pakistan's defender here, if you think this is something that should be re-added to the article, please reference it with a reliable source, or better discuss it with some neutral party before re adding. Thanks Ahated (talk!) 06:35, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Help

On 18 dec I'm edited this article with proofs. Today someone edited this article with proofs. Please reverts this article to yesterday's condition. My edit's proof https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1128161768 JokerKuma (talk) 12:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Today's some edited by Karan are without proper source or used my old sources. JokerKuma (talk) 12:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

In article [18]-[25] are my sources. JokerKuma (talk) 12:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

I removed your recent edits as it seemed to be controversial, Generally we used main paragraph for the causes of the Insurgency. we can't directly added "Militants killed thousands of people" you can check other related articles such as "Kashmir Insurgency" or "Baluchistan Insurgency", Second you have sub heading under "Timeline" for such incidents. ਕਰਨ 13 (talk) 12:08, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Why JokerKuma (talk) 17:40, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I think you're new on Wikipedia and you're not aware from the Rules & Guidelines (WP:POLICY) of Wikipedia, Wikipedia is a Neutral (WP:NPOV) platform for all the communities, You can start editing from less controversial articles. If you add "Khalistani militants killed thousands of hindus" then most probably some Pro–Khalistani editors will also add that "Indian Government killed thousands of Sikhs" and it will start an edit war on this article. I know how much people of Punjab suffered from 80s to 90s not just hindus but whole punjabi community but that is not the right way to define it. ਕਰਨ 13 (talk) 12:00, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Is this not true terrorist killed thousands of Hindus. JokerKuma (talk) 17:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Stop this now karan JokerKuma (talk) 02:11, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Why you editing my edits with proper source JokerKuma (talk) 02:12, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Why you editing my edits without proper sources JokerKuma (talk) 02:12, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

If you editing my edits than also delete my source links From article JokerKuma (talk) 02:14, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

You editing are show you pov bro best of luck bro Keep hating Punjabi hindus. We know what is happening today in Punjab. Everyday new hate news against Hindus in Punjab are coming. JokerKuma (talk) 02:46, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Your sikh politician divided Punjab into three parts. Because they want to rule Punjab. That why they started Hindi, Punjabi language politics. They know that in United Punjab they can't be CM of Punjab. Result of this From 1966-today no hindu cm is elected in Punjab. JokerKuma (talk) 02:52, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Result all cm of Punjab are Sikh from 1966-today JokerKuma (talk) 02:54, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Answer my others questions Is this not true Terrorists killed thousands of Hindus in Punjab JokerKuma (talk) 13:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

For some peoples 1984 all about Sikhs. All want justice for Sikhs But what about Hindus who lost their lives in Punjab. JokerKuma (talk) 13:41, 22 December 2022 (UTC)