Talk:I Was Only 19

Comments

The Australian Army flew to Vietnam. Maybe the 6th did but my Dad was in the 8th and I am sure he said he went there in an aircraft carrier, possibly the Melbourne? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.52.148.74 (talk) 06:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

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On the Neil Armstrong thing, Frankie might have been scheduled to go home in June, but because of the operation they were a part of it took them into July. Frankies going home might have been postponed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.228.166 (talk • contribs)

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I believe this article should be renamed "I was only Nineteen" as this was the original name of the song. {{Bassman91 03:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)}}

The original Registered (GW02696784) name of the song is "Only Nineteen" see Australasian Performing Right Association (APRA). APRA gives aliases as "I was only Nineteen", "A Walk in the Light Green", "I was only 19" and "Only 19". Some of these alternate names are now in the article. The 2005 hip hop version (GW34153851) was registered as "I was only 19 (The Herd version)".

However, I don't believe this article should be re-titled "Only Nineteen" as "I was Only Nineteen" is the more commonly used form when this song is played on Australian radio or TV. Redgum's compilation CD Against the Grain lists track 13 as "I Was Only 19 (A Walk In The Light Green)" on the back cover.Shaidar cuebiyar 01:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Agent Orange? Isn't that a mondegreen?

As I've always heard it (or mostly always) the line is actually "And an Asian orange sunset through the scrub," not "And an Agent Orange sunset through the scrub". If you listen carefully there is a no "T" pronounced at the end of "Asian", and it is definitely a soft "sh" sound in the middle of the word, not a "j" sound.

Further, the lyrics were printed in Appreciating Poetry (ed. Sadler-Hayllar-Powell, published by The MacMillan Company of Australia, 1986, page 144) and corroborates "Asian orange".

The point of this is that the sentence "his return home disillusioned, psychologically scarred and possibly suffering from the effects of the chemical defoliant agent orange" is incorrect. It should end with just "disillusioned and psychologically scarred." D f cornish 10:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Your point about "Asian orange sunset" is quite correct: lyrics are also printed on Redgum's Against the Grain album insert. However, the possibility of Agent orange exposure is implied elsewhere in the lyrics, when Schumann sings "And what's this rash that comes and goes, can you tell me what it means?"

As I understand it, many Vietnam vets simply didn't know at the time what caused their various symptoms (many were later found to be related to exposure to herbicides and insecticides including Agent orange) with the "not knowing" exacerbating any psychological stress they were suffering. The possibility of exposure without knowing for certain is sufficiently expressed in these lyrics.

Furthermore, Schumann discusses his writing of this song in I was only 19 (PDF) and expresses a link with the Hawke Government's call for a Royal Commission into the effects of herbicides / insecticides on these vets. I believe the sentence in the article should remain as is.Shaidar cuebiyar 19:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm - good point. However I would then suggest that the line be changed to "his return home disillusioned, psychologically scarred and possibly suffering from the effects of the chemical defoliants", to help prevent the mondegreen being reinforced. Or should the details of the mondegreen be added in a Trivia section, or something?D f cornish 07:50, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

My opinion is to keep the line as is: Agent Orange was the main defoliant cocktail that readers associate with the Vietnam war. I believe that there is a link in the minds of many listeners that part of the song is about Agent Orange. This may be fostered by the Mondegreen you refer to or by the section of lyric I referred to. If you wish to add details of the Mondegreen then I suggest it be placed within the main body of the article (not in a Trivia section). A new paragraph just after the paragraph ending with "...the 'Vung Tau Ferry')." seems appropriate.Shaidar cuebiyar 07:00, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Your analysis of the song is just speculation. While it is easy to tell from the song (a primary source) that he is psychologically scarred, it more difficult to say whether that he is suffering from the affects of Agent Orange. A secondary or tertiary source is needed. Anyway I found a Vietnamese news article that explicitly states that this song describes the effects of Agent Orange. Maybe it's reliable enough. -Apartmento 01:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Would the live version of the song count as a primary source? Schumann introduces the song with a explanation including "...its about two mates of mine who went to Vietnam, came back Agent Orange victims...". He identifies the two mates as Mick and Frankie and gives the alternate title "A Walk in the Light Green". Would this be sufficient to support the line in the article about the possibility of the protagonist (based on Mick Storen) being exposed to Agent Orange? Perhaps it needs to be referenced better?Shaidar cuebiyar 20:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I guess it could be used to support that line. It could even be said that he was suffering from Agent Orange. If Schumann said it its not interpretation or speculation of the primary source it's just description which is fine. Schumann description is a primary source and it is fine to use because we are just describing it, not interpreting it. I'll put it in the footnotes. -Apartmento 02:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add support to keeping "possibly suffering from the effects of the chemical defoliant Agent Orange".

That's always how I've understood it - both because of the very clear "what's this rash" reference, and also the (possibly unintended) allusion to Agent Orange Sunset".

Also, "dusted off" is defined as "aeromedical evacuation" in this article...

Well I'll be danged: I always thought that was refering to being showered with defoliant, though this definition makes more sense. I'm saying this because the whole Agent Orange thing was soooo in the front of everyone (in Australia)'s mind at the time that its entirely appropriate to leave it there! —Preceding unsigned comment added by GreenAsJade (talk • contribs) 00:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Some more to add. Have a listen to The Herd's cover of this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns82tHhJOr0 ) ... they too clearly sing the words as Agent Orange, and their reference to dusted off is clearly about being sprayed with pesticide. Just more evidence that this is a common, indeed prevailing in Australia, interpretation.

Just because The Herd sang it with those lyrics doesn't make it right, though. Aerosmith used slightly different lyrics in their version of the Spider-man theme song (I use it only as an analogy). Their interpretation of "dusted off" also makes no sense - you wouldn't let your mates down until you were sprayed with insecticide? Was it okay to let them down afterwards? The lyrics implied you wouldn't let them down until they were evacuated. Although I do agree that it is evidence that the mondegreen and associated misinterpretation is prevalent in Australia.D f cornish (talk) 07:06, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I have always considered 'dusted off' here as being similar to the practice of throwing a grenade into an unliked officer's tent. That is, you won't let your mates down 'til they were going to let you down.

Definitely nothing to do with Agent Orange, and the military term is to my understanding US slang rather than Australian.

Oh, and the sunset was definitely Asian orange. 119.18.0.207 (talk) 09:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

While not disagreeing with your thoughts on the song lyrics, the term "Agent Orange" was definitely used by Australians too. See Agent Orange#Australian and New Zealand veterans. Also see the section of that article titled "Use outside of Vietnam". HiLo48 (talk) 09:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Redgum version is "Asian Orange" while the version by The Herd is "Agent Orange" Falcon5nz (talk) 08:43, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Full lyrics deleted

I have reverted the recent edit by User:211.30.215.134 on 01:22, 21 April 2008. The edit added all the lyrics to the song and may breach copyright.

A portion of the lyrics are already in the article in relation to the Vietnam Forces National Memorial, Canberra indicating their significance to Vietnam Veterans and an explanation has been provided by Brigadier Alf Garland.

There is comphrehensive list describing the meaning of terms and references in the lyrics.

For readers wishing to see the full lyrics there is no better source than the song's writer John Schumann's own webpage: an external link is given at bottom of the article and here.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone has put the lyrics back up again, so i'll take them down. Cheers Emcee george (talk) 07:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Agent Orange

Rash and chloracne are actually symptoms of Agent Orange exposure 121.213.205.146 (talk) 17:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:I Was Only 19/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Quality: Article now contains: an infobox, considerable meaningful discussion including a quote by songwriter, description of lyrics for references; gives alternate versions including covers. A photo would improve the article. Importance relates to Australian Vietnam Vets: provided funds & raised public consciousness re: psychological & chemical effects of war; thereby assisting their case in the related Hawke Government Royal Commission. A better reference for this link is required. (I have contributed to this article and may be biased.)Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:04, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 21:04, 20 January 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 18:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Version

One Redgum release of the song had a short improvised instrumental (cello?) break. Do we have any more information on this version ? Doug butler (talk) 23:35, 8 November 2022 (UTC)