Talk:Hormuzd Rassam

Iraq and Syria

These terms are not being used in the nationalistic sense, but in the Cultural sense. Many books on Rassam say he was from a mixed cultural background of Syrian and Iraqi, just like we call someone from England "English" before the nation of England came into existence. -- Stbalbach 17:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. By stating his ethnicity and his place of birth/residence, the reader can get an idea of what cultural backround he has. You call someone "English" before the nation of England came into existence, because they are ethnic English. Chaldean 17:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

He was of mixed cultural background, a Syrian mother and an Iraqi father, that is why it is being brought up, it is significant. It would be like saying someone is of French and English parents. This is pretty simple aqnd straightforward, and supported by sources. -- Stbalbach 17:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

What? Syrian and Iraqi cultures are different like English and French? Where on earth are you getting this from? First of all, the was no such thing as a IRAQI until 1931, so to call someone born and died before this date is COMPLETLY INACCURATE. Books can be wrong too you know. What you are trying to do is against Wikipedia:Guidelines. Chaldean 04:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what guideline you are referring to. But if you look at the Wikipedia policy called WP:Verifiability you will notice that things may be included so long as they are cited. It is quite clear from a number of sources that Rassam had an Iraqi father and Syrian mother. The names Iraqi and Syrian are being used in the sense of cultural background, not "nation", which is made very clear. As an example, we speak of people as being French and English before France and England were a nation. I suppose we could continue edit warring, but since it is cited from a reliable source, your opinion about the source being wrong is just an opinion. I suggest that you start an RfC as the next step instead of continuing to edit war, this fact is cited from a source and perfectly allowed per WP:V. -- Stbalbach 16:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

you will notice that things may be included so long as they are cited. - not every citation can be taken into consideration, specially when it is blatenly inaccurate. What in the world is a "Iraqi culture"? Their was no "Iraqi" culture at his time, he was part of the Valiete of Mosul. What is today Iraqi was split into three region by the Ottomans - thus the word "Iraqi" does not apply. How can you say a Basrawi and a Maslawi had the same "backround"? His ethnicity is Assyrian, his mother being from Syria area and his father from Iraqi area, but these areas were all Ottoman, nothing more nothing less. I am taking this to a moderator. Chaldean 17:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added an additional source and re-worded it. Might I suggest rather than just deleting everything outright and going to a moderator that we work together and find a common solution that we can both live with? -- Stbalbach 17:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I am all for working things out together without a moderator, but you seem to stick to hte idea of "If I have a source, its must be right" or "hey its written in a book, so it must be right." - Their was no Iraqi culture before 1931. Their was no Iraqi arabic before 1931, so to say he is from "Iraqi culture" is as inaccurate as saying Sargon I was from Iraqi culture, or calling him a Iraqi. Do you see what I'm saying? The rewording is better now. Chaldean 17:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I guess that is just how we do it, we cite sources and if someone disagrees with a source they provide a better source and more information, but just deleting a source and saying no that is wrong, even if your right, creates a conflict, unless you also provide a better source and/or better information to back it up. I'm happy to resolve this, Rassam is an important person who has been unfairly marginalized by his Victorian-era peers and only recently is it coming to light how important he was, a lot more could be said about him. -- Stbalbach 18:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

StSomebody hasn't got a clue what they're talking about. Iraq and Syria have the same language, history and culture - they're the same people, it's not possible to be "mixed" Iraqi and Syrian, there's no difference. They would be the same country were it not for the Anglo-French divide and conquer. To compare it to being mixed English and French is sufficiently ridiculous as to do your credibility serious damage. Izzedine 02:25, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Hormuzd Rassam was Chaldean. There was no Assyrian nationalism during his time. Stop spreading these fallacies, Assyrian nationalist are sickening.--CommonSenseofCourse (talk) 06:06, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Actually, ethnically, Rassam was an Assyrian, he even told Layard that the archaeological finds they were unearthing in northern Iraq were those of his ancestors, and Layard records this in his own writings. Theologically, his family members were a mix of adherents of the Assyrian Church of the East and Chaldean Catholic Church. The term Chaldean is only the name of a church, just like Nestorian, Baptist etc, it has no ethnic or geographic meaning at all. There is no Chaldean continuity in northern Iraq AT ALL, but there is Assyrian continuity, supported by Historicity, and by noted historians, orientalists, ethnologists, linguists, geneticists and archaeologists. As for the terms Iraqi and Syrian, they mean nothing in reference to Rassam, as neither country existed at the time, and within both these modern countries, there are many different ethnicities, Rassam for example was NOT an Arab, Kurd, Armenian, Turkman, Yezidi, Persian, Mandean, Shabaki, Georgian, Greek, Kawliya/Roma, Syriac Aramean, Mhallami or Circassian, was he? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.230.41 (talk) 09:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

readers coming from the Cyrus Cylinder page

On the Cyrus Cylinder page, Rassam is called "a controversial figure remembered as much for his brutal tactics as his discoveries" but there aren't any allegations of brutality on his page. Can someone clarify? What brutalities is he accused of? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.216.74 (talk) 02:37, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism concerning terms Assyrian and Chaldean

Looking at a series of anonymous IP edits made in the past month, I note that someone has been making efforts to insert the phrase 'Chaldean' in the place of 'Assyrian' in the article as Rassam's ethnic identity. As far as I can ascertain so far, Rassam himself identified as kin to the Assyrians, while Chaldean refers to the church denomination of some of his contemporary relatives. I notice that further up on this Talk page, there is a contributor who has asserted a similar ethnicity for Rassam, along with the justification that 'Assyrian nationalist are sickening.' I am inclined to believe that the recent edits are likely vandalism, related not to Rassam's self-identification or to any historical sources, but to some personal prejudice against Assyrian identity in the present-day politics of Iraq. In light of recent attacks upon the physical cultural heritage of ancient Assyria by IS, including the sites first excavated by Rassam, I am inclined to see such vandalism as potential hate speech against a minority ethnicity. I would like to ask other editors to keep a watch on this page, and to make reversions of similar vandalism, unless they are supported with a relevant citation. If similar vandalism is persistent, should we consider placing a lock upon this and other pages? Ethdhelwen (talk) 07:47, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hormuzd Rassam/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I am a direct decendent of Rassam, and would be happy to help fill in any gaps i can on this page. rmoore4814@aol.com

Last edited at 22:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 18:16, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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