Talk:Horace Holley (minister)

Descendant of Edmond Halley

Please show the exact connection between Sir Edmond Halley and Horace Holley. On first sight it looks like "newspaper genealogy" (because of similar names), but comparing the facts, that Sir Edmond Halley had only one son Edmond (born after 1682) and Horace's grandfather was one John Halley born in 1713 in Litchfield, Connecticut, it seems to be extremely unlikely. Besides, the "Proceedings" source (misspelling the name of Halley and saying "the Comet went wrong" [what does that mean????], is not available to be read on-line. Kraxler (talk) 07:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The Proceedings source is available to be read online. I just accessed it. I'll admit I don't know much about Holley's genealogy firsthand, but the claim is sourced. If you want to take issue with the source, that's another matter. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 16:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The source is not available, only the cover of the book appears at the above link. If one source says "...is a descendant of...", other sources or established facts (in other Wikipedia articles) say otherwise or make the statement unlikely, then you can not write in the article "...was a descendant of..." On one hand, the issue becomes controversial, and controversial content is barred. On the other hand, you could write in the article "...sources claim that he is..." or "...he claimed yo have been..." Since I can not read the source, I could not say who claimed this. We better try to find some better informed sources. ----

Again, I'll not necessarily vouch for the reliability of the source, but I can post the relevant content:

"HORACE HOLLEY, LL.D. : THIRD PRESIDENT OF OLD TRANSYLVANIA * BY JOHN WILSON TOWNSEND One hundred and thirty-four years ago Horace Holley was born. In a most direct line he was descended from the famous Edmund Halley, the English astronomer, whose comet, like many another good thing, went wrong several years ago. The American founder of his family, John Holley, was one of the big men of seventeenth-century Connecticut; and his father, Luther Holley, was a business man of ability, around whose memory lingers the excellent tradition that he, like Lord Macaulay, could repeat the whole of "Paradise Lost.""

Not sure why you're having trouble accessing the source. I once again accessed it this morning without issue. Anyway, it would appear the claim was made by the piece's author, one John Wilson Townsend, about whom I know nothing. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 13:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Acdixon, ou see that the claim is rather nebulous and clearly self-contradicting, since the only son of Sir Edmond Halley, named Edmond also, was born after 1682 and one John Holley is described as the American founder of the family and living in Conn. in the seventeenth century. That is proof for the falsity of the claim, it looks like an attempt at eulogy without really knowing anything of the facts. They may have had some common nacestor in the remote past, but there is no evidence and that is not the claim. To compare, see the case of NYS Att. Gen. Marshall B. Champlain who is described in his obit as a descendant of Samuel de Champlain who had no known descendants! Besides the name was always written "Champlin" (without a) until he entered politics and then either the newspapers (by mistake) or he himself (to fix his name in the minds of the voters) invented that connection. That is what I call "newspaper genealogy", based on named that sound similar, but are not even spelled the same. Kraxler (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Obviously, you know more about Edmund Halley than I do, which is to say you know more than "he discovered a comet." It would be foolish for me to argue this point with you. What I took exception to was the idea that the claim was not sourced. It was. The source may be incorrect, but I added the fact and cited it in good faith. That's all I'm saying. I have not attempted to re-add the information since you brought the matter here to the talk page, and will not until and unless I find some other source backing this claim. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 17:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

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