Talk:Honan Chapel/Archive 2
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Ceoil in topic A fresh look
 | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
A fresh look
Thank you for your patience. I had to finish a few projects.
The article has come a long way. Good work.
Background and construction
Population growth and migration in the early 20th century led to the development of a number of suburbs around Cork, including the building of churches to serve these new areas; the Honan Chapel was the first church to be built in Cork in the new century.
- Do you mean immigration? Can you specify the provenance and class?
- Is the article before Honan chapel appropriate? The Honan Chapel or just Honan Chapel?
- Consider: Population growth and migration in the early 20th century led to the development of a number of suburbs around Cork, which involved the building of churches to serve these new areas
Its development was rooted in a longstanding educational disagreement between the Protestant and Catholic hierarchies. Queens College Cork (today known as University College Cork, or UCC) was incorporated in 1845 as part of a nationwide series of new universities known as the Queen's Colleges, under a charter that excluded Catholic students.
- Consider genesis instead of development. You have the same verb, development, used twice and very close together, but it's used with different subjects. It’s a little confusing.
In 1911, the Queen's Colleges ceased as legal entities, and Catholics were thereafter eligible to attend. A few years previously, the Irish Universities Act of 1908 forbade government funding for any "church, chapel, or other place of religious worship or observance"; thus any centre for Catholic students would have to be built with private funding.
- I would attach A few years previously, the Irish Universities Act of 1908 forbade government funding for any "church, chapel, or other place of religious worship or observance"; thus any centre for Catholic students would have to be built with private funding. to the next paragraph with which it seems more closely related.
When she died in 1913, she left £40,000 to the city of Cork, including £10,000 which her executor, a Dublin solicitor John O'Connell, was instructed to use to establish a centre of worship for Catholic students in UCC, among other charitable and educational purposes.
O'Connell used part of the funds to provide scholarships for Catholic students at UCC, and acquired the site of St Anthony's Hall (also known as Berkley Hall) from the Franciscan order to develop an accommodation block for male Catholic students known as the Honan Hostel.
- Delete comma after UCC. Despite the length of the sentence, it’s still a compound predicate: O’Connell used … and acquired….
The Honan Chapel was one of the first modern Irish churches conceived with a thematic design not directed by the clergy.
- Consider inserting that was to add emphasis: that was not directed by the clergy.
O'Connell, who in 1929, after the death of his wife, became a priest, was an active member of the Celtic revival movement, a member of the Irish Arts and Crafts Committee, a fellow of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, a member of the Royal Irish Academy, and was elected chairman of the Arts and Crafts Society of Ireland in 1917.
- Insert and after Antiquaries of Ireland. As written a member of the Royal Irish Academy is the last of the series that depends on the first verb. Either delete comma after a member of the Royal Irish Academy (compound predicate O’Connell was … and was) or, as a better solution, separate the last part: a member of the Royal Irish Academy. He was elected chairman…
- OR, as an alternative to the above, rewrite as: O'Connell, who in 1929, after the death of his wife, became a priest, was an active member of the Celtic revival movement, a member of the Irish Arts and Crafts Committee, a fellow of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, a member of the Royal Irish Academy, and in 1917 chairman of the Arts and Crafts Society of Ireland.
He was deeply interested in ecclesiastical archaeology, and was acquainted with several members of the Irish Arts and Crafts and Celtic revival movements.
- Delete comma. Compound predicate: He was interested … and was acquainted ….
It was consecrated on 5 November 1916, and dedicated to Saint Finbarr, patron saint of Cork city and of the Diocese of Cork; on grounds believed to be close to an early Christian monastic site founded by the saint.
- Delete comma. Compound predicate: It was consecrated … and dedicated ….
Caption
The Honan Hostel. Both it and the chapel were built adjacent to Donovans road, outside UCC's grounds at the time, but have been within the university's bounds since its expansion in the mid 20th century.
- Either delete the comma after time (compound predicate) OR transform into a compound sentence by inserting they: ...time, but they have been...Venicescapes (talk) 06:41, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Architecture
O'Connell was mainly inspired by medieval architecture and the Honan Chapel's architectural style is Celtic-Romanesque.
- Insert comma after architecture. Compound sentence: O’Connell was…, style is....
The site is located on a hillside, overlooking the valley of the River Lee, on a site once thought to contain one of Finbarr's original churches. The western entrance is approached through double-hinged wrought iron gates.
- The part above seems out of place since it’s discussing location and not architecture. But I don’t see any other place where it would fit better. Perhaps moving it to the beginning of the section would help. In that case, you might need to do some rewording.
Its façade was influenced by the 12th-century St. Cronan's Church, Roscrea and contains an arcade and gabled wall. Keohane describes its Antae as "surmounted by improbable pinnacles...and probably better regarded as clasping buttresses".
The western doorway contains moldings carved from lozenge and pellets, and once contained an iron grille which has since been removed. It is capped by three limestone ribbed vaults, supported by capitals carrying reliefs of the heads of six Munster saints: Finnbarr of Cork, Coleman of Cloyne; St. Gobnait of Ballyvourney; Brendan of Kerry, Declán of Ardmore and Íte of Killeedy.
- The verb contains/contained appears three times in a brief space.
- In the second paragraph, you describe a current situation, then a former situation, and then a current situation. Consider: The western doorway once contained an iron grille which has since been removed. It has moldings carved from lozenge and pellets and is capped by three limestone ribbed vaults, supported by capitals carrying reliefs of the heads of six Munster saints: Finnbarr of Cork, Coleman of Cloyne; St. Gobnait of Ballyvourney; Brendan of Kerry, Declán of Ardmore and Íte of Killeedy.
- Commas (not semicolons) between the names of the saints
Each figure is further represented in the stained-glass windows.
- Suggest saint instead of figure
- Are these windows on the same façade? If not, the sentence seems out of place and interrupts the discussion on the reliefs.
The chapel's small interior is given a simple layout, consisting of a main entrance, six-bay nave, two-bay square chancel and a nunnery.
- Try: interior has a simple layout.
- Insert a before six-bay
The oblong nave is 72 by 28 feet (22 by 8.5 m), and contained within a timber barrel vaulted ceiling that ends at the chancel which is 26 by 18 feet (7.9 by 5.5 m) .
- Delete comma after (22 by 8.5 m). Compound predicate: nave is … and contained. You could also (preferable) rewrite as: The oblong nave, 72 by 28 feet (22 by 8.5 m), is contained….
The nave is relatively simple and lacks shrines where worshippers normally light candles or place flowers near devotional images; in this way, it is similar to a Protestant church.
Its plain, round campanile are based on by 9th-century round towers.
- Change are to is.Venicescapes (talk) 13:07, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Altar
The chapel has had two altars. The original altar table was built from a slab of local limestone chosen as a reaction against the ornately carved Italian marble then in fashion with church builders.
- Optional comma after limestone for emphasis
That altar contained silver ornaments fitted by Edmond Johnson of Dublin and William Egan and Sons of St Patrick's Street, Cork. It was positioned on a five-legged table, each leg of which was embedded with an Irish crucifix formed from simple geometric designs including zig-zag patterns in lozenge and saltire, continuous dots and chevrons.
- Comma after designs: ...designs, including...
The chapel's original design contravened the requirements of the Second Vatican Council in several ways: it was based on medieval churches and the old rites; it was built with a large spatial divide between the nave and chancel; and the altar was positioned at the very back of the chancel with the priest facing away from the congregation. In 1986, in response to the changed liturgical requirements, the chapel authorities commissioned the architect Richard Hurley to redesign elements of its fixtures. He in turn employed the German-Irish sculptor Imogen Stuart, aided by John and Teresa Murphy, to undertake a redevelopment, including replacement of the altar, pulpit, ceremonial chairs and baptismal font.
- Link Second Vatican Council
- Insert the after including: ...including the replacement.... BUT consider: ...to undertake a redevelopment, which included the replacement of the altar...
Stuart's replacement altar was constructed in oak and depicts two of the Evangelists.
- To avoid the tense change, consider: Stuart's replacement altar, constructed in oak, depicts...
Although first intended for the centre of the chancel at the focal point of the mosaic floor, this proved to be too far back and was impractical during ceremonies.
- Insert the altar: Although the altar was first intended (otherwise the intended refers to this)
- Elaborate on this: ...this arrangement proved...
Stuart works with other materials but favours wooden carvings, as exemplified by those at the front of the Honan altar.
- This seems unconnected since the sentence before talks about the position. Perhaps move to the beginning of the paragraph where you mention oak and the evangelists.Venicescapes (talk) 06:36, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Tabernacle
Its upper, triangular panel is set in the gable of the "entrance" and shows the Trinity of God the father, the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove, and Jesus crucified; around them, two angels carry the sun, moon, and other symbols of creation.
- Capitalize Father
- Is there a reason why Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are not in the standard sequence?
These enamel embellishments were by the Irish craftsman and stained glass specialist Oswald Reeves and have been described as the best of his work.
- Change were to are Venicescapes (talk) 14:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Stained-glass windows
Since Ireland had no extant medieval glass tradition to emulate, O'Connell planned that Sarah Purser's studio, An Túr Gloine, who in 1914 were at that time the leading proponent in the production of stained glass in Ireland, would produce all of the windows for the chapel, then planned as Our Lady, Joseph, and St. John for the chancel, Patrick, Brigid and Columcille for western entrance, and two local saints for the nave.
- I'm struggling with this sentence. To begin with, I would definitely break it into two sentences. It’s not clear as to why the lack of a medieval glass tradition resulted in the initial selection of Purser’s studio. I would also immediately specify the number of windows originally planned.
However, O'Connell had also commissioned designs by the young but emerging stained glass artist Harry Clarke, and eventually set him and Purser's studio in competition against each other.
- I'm not sure why you’re using the past perfect here. What is the successive event? As written, no comma after Clarke. BUT, I would suggest: However, O'Connell also commissioned designs by the young but emerging stained glass artist Harry Clarke, and he eventually set Clarke and Purser's studio in competition against each other. This solution requires the comma.
When O'Connell viewed Clarke's cartoon for the Brigid window, he commissioned him to produce five for the chapel. After viewing the design for St. Gobnait, he requested a further six from him. Although Purser was upset with the younger artist being awarded the majority of windows, An Túr Gloine ended up producing the original eight planned for them.
- Are there five more or a total of five for the chapel?
- My understanding is that 11 additional windows were commissioned. If so, I would fuse the two sentences: When O'Connell viewed Clarke's cartoon for the St. Brigid and St. Gobnait windows, he commissioned him to produce an additional eleven for the chapel.
- It’s implied, but never stated, that O’Connell was pleased with the designs and therefore commissioned more windows. It could (theoretically) be that Clarke was faster or cheaper.
- Were windows added to allow for more designs, or were some windows originally meant to be plain?
- Establish immediately how many windows and their locations. Then you could explain that fewer were initially planned and why.
The nineten stained glass windows in the chapel are: Our Lord (or "Christ in Majesty") (Child), Our Lady of Sorrows (Clarke), St. John (O'Brien) and St. Joseph (Clarke). To the right of the chancel looking down are: St. Finnbar (Clarke), St. Albert (Clarke), St. Declan (Clarke), St. Ailbe (Child), St. Fauchtna (Child) and St. Munchin (O'Brien). To the left are: St. Ita (Clarke), St. Coleman (Child), St.Brendan (Clarke), St. Gobnait (Clarke), St. Flannan (O'Brien) and St. Carthage (Rhind). The windows in the west gable are all by Clarke and represent St. Patrick, St. Brigid and St. Columcille. Six are on each side of the nave, four are within the chancel, and three area above the west gable.
- Correct nineteen
- This seems out of place since only in the next paragraph do you mention and explain A. E. Child, Catherine O'Brien, and Ethel Rhind.
Both studios were asked to depict Gaelic saints from the early-medieval, so called "golden age", of Christianity in Ireland.
- This would seem more appropriate when you list the saints.
Some of Clarke's windows were endangered by nearby fighting during the 1916 Easter Rising in Dublin, and the designs and illustrations for several of his other works were destroyed.
- This seems to interrupt the flow which is talking about style and contrast. It might be more appropriate as a note.
- Overall, this whole section seems jumbled. Consider restructuring.Venicescapes (talk) 10:51, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
- Working on this Venicescapes. Ceoil (talk) 22:00, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Harry Clarke
The Honan windows became his first works for a public space, and went on to established his reputation as a significant international artist.
- Considere: ...and would establish his reputation... OR simply ...and established...
- No comma after space
A contemporary reviewer, comparing the windows to French medieval glass, including those in the Gothic royal chapel of Sainte-Chapelle, described them as "remarkable" and a "distinct advance on anything which has been heretofore done in Ireland in stained glass.
- If heretofore is not part of the quote or paraphrased, consider previously
In particular, his blending of bold and dark colours has been praised, especially in the effects they achieve in morning light. The designer Percy Oswald Reeves highlighted the windows for their "beauty of ... colour, quality and treatment of each piece of glass." His merging of Catholic and early medieval imagery in a modern and individualised style was at odds with prevailing trends in Irish church art. According to scholar Luke Gibbons, Clarke's break "from episcopal interference ... enabled [him] to exploit vernacular traditions of local saints ... that belonged more to legend and folklore ... and whose popular appeal lay outside the highly centralised power of post-famine ultramontane Catholicism."
- Can you elaborate on the prevailing trends and how Clarke’s style differs?
Clarke's windows are all single light, each consisting of nine separate panels, with rich colouring and a deep, thick royal blue throughout.
- This is somewhat a repeat since you’ve already mentioned ...similar deep blue colour scheme... above
They contain simplified, often whimsical forms which are nevertheless highly stylised. The windows contain Celtic designs and motifs, as well as figures and incidents from the life of each saint. The most obvious Celtic embellishments are Mary's red hair and green halo, and Brendan's pampooties. The writer M. J. O'Kelly suggests they evoke "the spirit of the ancient Celt". His designs blend Catholic iconography with motifs from Celtic mythology in a style that draws heavily from Art Nouveau, in particular the darker, fin de siècle works of Gustav Klimt, Aubrey Beardsley and Egon Schiele.
- Consider moving this paragraph before the paragraph that begins In particular, his blending of bold.... Here you’re actually describing how he blends Catholic and Celtic art. This would be helpful before the assessment.Venicescapes (talk) 12:08, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Patrick, Brigid and Columcille
Designed in 1915, the Trias Thaumaturga windows of Ireland's three patron saints, Brigid, Patrick and Columcille are positioned on the west wall above the main entrance door, and were the first of Clarke's designs to be completed.
- Insert comma after Columcille (end of the appositive)
- Delete comma after door BUT consider instead: Designed in 1915 and the first of Clarke's designs to be completed, the Trias Thaumaturga windows of Ireland's three patron saints, Brigid, Patrick and Columcille, are positioned on the west wall above the main entrance door.
The Brigid window in particular was well received by critics when first shown in Clarke's studio in Dublin, and lead to the original commission for five windows.
- No comma after Dublin
- Change lead to led
- Shouldn’t this be in the third paragraph where you talk about the Brigid window?
The Patrick window was the first of the Honan windows Clarke worked on, and at 11.6 x 2.10 inches is the largest in the chapel. He worked on it for two months from March 1915, beginning the day after his 21st birthday, during which he produced a full sized cartoon. The window is positioned on a base of five lilies, and the deep blue and green hues in the window were achieved using sheets of "antique" pot metal glass which were specially ordered from Chance's in Birmingham.
- Consider moving the dimensions down to where you talk about position. At present, the dimensions interrupt the discussion about the design. Perhaps: The Patrick window was the first of Clarke’s windows. He worked on it for two months beginning on 18 March 1915, the day after his 21st birthday, on which he produced the full sized cartoon. The window, at 11.6 x 2.10 inches the largest in the chapel, is positioned on a base of five lilies, and the deep blue and green hues in the window were achieved using sheets of "antique" pot metal glass which were specially ordered from Chance's in Birmingham.
The borders are decorated by what O'Connell described as "symbols of his learning, his justice, his kingly dignity, of truth, of spiritual fire, of light overcoming darkness, of the serpent typical of the reptiles which he banished from Ireland."
- change by to with
Brigid, known as "The Mary of Ireland", is dressed in a blue cloak and robe, and a white headdress decorated with spirals.
- delete comma after robe BUT consider: Brigid, known as "The Mary of Ireland", is shown dressed in a blue cloak and robe and wears a white headdress decorated with spirals.
He is dressed in red, green and blue vestments, holding a sliver and gold mitre.
- Perhaps change to and holds: He is dressed in red, green and blue vestments and holds a sliver and gold mitre.Venicescapes (talk) 12:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Brendan, Declan and Gobnait
In the caption: Detail of Clarke's original[modello, 1914. Pencil, pen, inks and watercolor on board. Corning Museum of Glass, New York., delete [.Venicescapes (talk) 13:12, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Brendan wears a robe of blue, purple, greens and gold hues, fishnet gloves, and (reflecting his reputation as a seaman and voyager) he holds a paddle in his left hand.
- You need an and (or as well as) before fishnet. The basic structure is: Brenden wears … robe … and … gloves. To avoid a string of ands, break off the second part: Brendan wears a robe of blue, purple, greens and gold hues as well as fishnet gloves. In his left hand he holds a paddle which evokes his reputation as a seaman and voyager. You could also use recalls instead of evokes.
In the lower panel a grotesque, claw-limbed Judas Iscariot, appears as a "devilish figure surrounded by red and yellow flames", his lower body transformed into that of a goat.
- Delete comma after Iscariot
Brendan is said to have found Judas abandoned on a rock in the ocean, to be tormented for eternity by demons.
- Where is it said?
- Consider inserting condemned: Brendan is said to have found Judas abandoned on a rock in the ocean, condemned to be tormented for eternity by demons.
In another chapter, he arrives at an island, the "Paradise of Birds", where birds sing psalms "as if with one voice" in praise of God; Clarke depicts this in the sketches of birds on the window's borders. As with a number of other of Clarke's Honan windows, the designs in Brendan's panels reflect the artist's taste for the macabre, especially in what Costigan describes as "the woefully metamorphosed fallen angels from the Paradise of Birds island" and "Brendan's sore-tired contemporaries" lining the window's borders.
- In another chapter … (of what?)
- I’m not sure what you mean by sketches. Are you referring to preliminary designs or the window as realized?
- Consider: As with several of Clarke’s windows at Honan, the Brendan panels reflect….
Declán of Ardmore lived in the 5th century, and is the patron saint of the Decii clan of County Waterford.
- No comma after century (Declan lived … and is …)
In the main image, Declan wears a red and gold hooded cloak, holds a long cross and is surrounded by a patchwork of red, purple, gold and black glass shards.
- As written, this could mean that the cloak is red, and the hood is gold. It could also mean that the hood is red and gold. On the assumption that the cloak has a hood and is red and gold, consider: Declan wears a hooded cloak in red and gold.
- Standardize Declan or Declán
The upper panel portrays his return from Wales, carrying the bell, which by legend was sent to him as a gift from heaven, but that he is said to have left behind, and which, in response to prayers, miraculously returned to Ireland by detaching itself from the rock on which it had been left on, to reappear in Ardmore.
- This is really complex. Consider: The upper panels concerns Declan’s return to Ireland from Wales and shows the saint carrying a bell, one of his attributes. According to legend, the bell, sent to Declan as a gift from heaven, was inadvertently left behind on a rock, but in response to Declan’s prayers, it miraculously reappeared in Ardmore.
On either side of them are Ruamus holding the bell, and an unidentified attendant holding a candle.
Insert commas before holding and change second holding to with: On either side of them are Ruamus, holding the bell, and an unidentified attendant with a candle.
The Saint Gobnait window has been described as the "most remarkable" of the Honan windows, and a high point of Clarke's career.
- Described as "most remarkable" by whom and for what reason?
While number of the early Honan windows were completed by assistants working from his designs, Clarke solely designed the cartoon, transferred it to glass, and oversaw its installation in Cork.
- Consider himself instead of solely
It is located on the north side of the chapel, and depicts scenes from the life of Gobnait, a healer who established a convent in Ballyvourney and became the patron saint of bees.
- I would restate the subject: The window is located….
The window's borders are lined with beaded decorations in ruby and blue.
- I would delete or move this. You haven’t mentioned borders for any of the windows. So I’m unclear as to why it is relevant here. Also, it interrupts your discussion on her appearance and the source of the clothing.
Gobnait's clothing draws from Léon Bakst's costume for Ida Rubinstein's 1911 performance of "Le Martyre de saint Sébastien". Her right arm is outstretched in a pose that draws from Beardsley, Alesso Baldovinetti's c. 1465 Portrait of a Lady in Yellow, and portraits by Donatello.
- Change from to upon: …draws upon…
- You have draws twice. Change one of them to derives from.
- What work of Beardsley?
In the upper panel, the victims of a plague fled to her for sanctuary and protection.
- Since you’re describing the window, change fled to flees. Otherwise, this should be rewritten to narrate the event.
Clarke and his assistant Kathleen Quigly completed the window's modello under considerable time pressure over five weeks in 1914, during the offer period for the Honan commission, when Clark was still a largely unknown artist.
- modello in italic
- What do you mean by offer period?
- I would delete when Clark was still a largely unknown artist. This has already been established.
A monochrome study was made in pencil, pen, inks, and watercolour on board, before the cartoon, now at the Corning Museum of Glass, was completed, and eventually transferred to glass. During this process, each panel was cut up, waxed and painted. This was an expensive process for the largely unknown artist, and was funded both by both his father and his friend Augtin Malloy.
- Delete commas after completed and artist.
The window was described by Teehan as "kaleidoscopically sumptuous" and "filled with a wealth of art historical allusions, often unexpected". According to the Irish novelist E. Œ. Somerville, it conjures late 19th century decadence in its resemblance to an Beardsley–type female face, which "though horrible [is] so modern and conventionally unconventional ... [Clarke's] windows have a kind of hellish splendour".
- I’m not sure conjures is correct. Consider evokes.Venicescapes (talk) 13:17, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Footnote I. Remove bold.Venicescapes (talk) 13:19, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Venicescapes this review is deeply appreciated, thank you. Ceoil (talk) 02:24, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Finnbarr and Ita
To follow
Albert of Cashel
The window of the little known eighth century missionary saint Albert of Cashel was designed immediately after the Finnbar and Ita windows. It was installed in 1916 and is located on the chapel's north wall.
- Consider: It was installed in 1916 on the chapel’s north wall.
Albert is shown preaching in the upper panel, with red hair and a purple chasuble, crimson stole and a mitre. He sits on an elaborately decorated green, blue and golden throne, which is positioned underneath a large cross.
- Consider: Albert is depicted in the upper panel with red hair and a purple chasuble, crimson stole and a mitre. He sits, preaching, on an elaborately decorated green, blue and golden throne, which is positioned underneath a large cross.
The window is adorned with Celtic motifs, including the bronze spirals around his beard.
- I would move this to the end of the paragraph in order to keep the descriptions of the various parts of the window all together.
Our Lady of Sorrows and St. Joseph
The last two of Clarke's windows, depicting Mary and Joseph, were installed in the chancel in April 1917, a full year after the chapel was opened. Both were favourably reviewed in his Dublin studio before their installation in Cork.
- Suggest starting a new paragraph for Mary’s window. The above serves as an introduction for both windows.
- To avoid installed/installation, consider ...before their transportation to Cork.
She is shown as "Mary of the Irish", with red hair and an emerald halo. She wears a deep royal blue and turquoise robe, and is shown holding a pink rose.
- Change one of the shown to depicted or portrayed.
The uppermost panel contains a star representing of the Holy Family, below which is the Holy Spirit indicated by tongues of fire.
- Delete of OR change to representative of
Around these figures are four Japanese seals, which were influenced by work from Henry Payne's students at the Birmingham School of Art.
- I don’t understand why there are Japanese seals.
The upper panel of Joseph's window shows the saint wearing crown of fire, beside the Holy Family and four angels.
- Insert a: ...wearing a crown of fire.
- What does the crown of fire represent?
- Since Joseph is part of the Holy Family, rewrite as: beside the rest of the Holy Family
In the main panel, he wears a gold and red cloak, and is given a blue and green halo.
- Change is given to has
- Delete comma after cloak (compound predicate)
In contrast to contemporary Catholic representations of Joseph which depict him as a healthy and strong middle aged man, Clarke shows him in the medieval tradition, as an old and frail man.
- Consider: …Clarke shows him as an old and frail man, in the medieval tradition. Otherwise, leave as is but delete the comma. As an old and frail man is essential.Venicescapes (talk) 13:13, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
`::Venisscapes, thank you as always. I should be able to get to these on Monday or Tuesday night.
An Túr Gloine
It consisted of pupil's of A. E. Child, who was then teaching at the Metropolitan School of Art in Dublin, who she employed to managed the workshop.
- This is a tough read. Consider: The workshop was managed by Sarah Purser’s pupil A. E. Child, who was then teaching at the Metropolitan School of Art in Dublin.
O'Brien joined An Túr Gloine in 1904, and came from an Anglo-Irish and devout Church of Ireland family and is credited with three of the chapel's windows.
- Since this is the first mention, you should include her name.
- I’m not clear as to why she is being singled out.
Their cartoons were, like those from Clarke's studio, designed and built in Dublin before installation in Cork.
- Their is not clear. I assume you’re referring to the workshop. Also, this would be better at the end. Consider: The eight windows produced by the workshop are attributed to Child (St. Ailbe, St. Fachtna and St. Coleman) and to his then pupils Catherine O'Brien (St. John, St. Flannan and St. Munchin) and Ethel Rhind (St. Carthagh). The cartoons, like those from Clarke's studio, were designed and realized in Dublin before installation in Cork.
Child depicts the risen Christ in simple forms and subdued colours, and with a strong but dignified facial expression.
Our Lord (Child)
The central single-light window located directly above the altar depicts Jesus Christ, and was designed by Alfred Child.
- Consider: The central single-light window, designed by Alfred Child and located directly above the altar, depicts Jesus Christ.
He is marked apart from the other saints by the window's tone frame the splendor of his crown, his crimson robe and his royal jewels.
- Consider set off rather than marked apart
- splendour
Compared to Clarke's windows, the window is portrayed in pale and subdued tones…
- Delete. The stylistic differences have already been established.
- Begin the next sentence as: The image was described by O’Connell….
St. John (O'Brien)
O'Brien's "St. John" window is the only in the chapel to portray a biblical narrative, and is usually considered the strongest of An Túr Gloine's windows.
- Delete comma after narrative (You have a tendency to place a comma between the two verbs of a compound predicate. If you feel a need to break the sentence, just introduce a second subject ... this can easily be a pronoun ... and transform it into a compound sentence.) There are also other solutions. In this case, consider a participial phrase: O'Brien's "St. John" window, usually considered the strongest of An Túr Gloine's windows, is the only one in the chapel to portray a biblical narrative.
- This explanation should help. It's actually a very common error to place a comma in the middle of a compound predicate (I'm talking about only two verbs and not more in which case, yes, you would need commmas because they would be in a series). This is a compound predicate: Jack hit the ball and ran to first base. There is only one subject (Jack), and both verbs (hit and ran) refer to that subject. The problem arises when the sentence gets long with all sorts of phrases and clauses. You can easily lose track of the basic structure and insert a comma where it doesn't belong. Also, the writer can get a sense that commas are needed in such a long sentence and start adding them. In the case of the above example, you can easily transform it into a compound sentence by inserting a pronoun: Jack hit the ball, and he ran to first base. Now each verb has it's own subject Jack hit, and he ran. You could easily divide this into two sentences: Jack hit the ball. He ran to first base. The comma is obligatory in a compound sentence (you'll have a subject and verb on each side of the comma). As I wrote above, there are also many other ways to restructure a long sentence if you feel the need break it down.
- I hope this doesn't come across as too pedant. My grandmother was an English teacher, and she loved to diagram sentences. It's now a lost practice, but it was actually very helpful.Venicescapes (talk) 06:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- No it doesn't at all. As an Irishman of a certain age, my schooling in the 1980s by De La Salle brothers didn't place much emphasis on English grammer and what have you, as you can imagine, so am short on technical...stuff. All of the above is most helpful, and thank you very much for all this help. Ceoil (talk) 07:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Its imagery mostly concerns the life of Christ as told in the Gospel of John, and draws more from close readings of scripture than traditions of iconography.
- No comma after John. Consider inverting the sentence: Its imagery draws more from close readings of scripture than traditions of iconography and mostly concerns the life of Christ as told in the Gospel of John.
The crucifixion scene in the central register is more richly coloured that the other panels, and per tradition shows Mary and St. John at the foot of the cross.
- Delete comma. But consider: The crucifixion scene in the central register, with as per tradition Mary and St. John at the foot of the cross, is more richly coloured that the other panels.
The medallions below the crucifixion reflect two accounts of John's brother James, "the disciple whom Jesus loved". The lowest register is again in bright colours and shows the calling of James and John. The images stays with scriptural tradition; James and John are accompanied by their father, and are the second pair to be called, after St. Peter and St. Andrew, who are already at Jesus' side. The eagle at the foot of the window is John's usual symbol.
- Unless there is a different tradition in Ireland, the disciple whom Jesus loved should be John.
- You mention two accounts but describe only one scene.Venicescapes (talk) 12:39, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Furnishings, textiles and objects
O'Connell commissioned Egan & Sons for the altar plate and vestments. O'Connell was keen that its artwork would draw from Ireland's ancient culture and was heavily influenced by 19th century antiquarian research into early Christian and early medieval art, in particular early medieval metal and stone works and illuminated manuscripts. He wanted the chapel to reflect the earlier period's influence on Irish culture, while maintaining a relatively simple physical outlay, comprising what Teehan describes as a "peaceful, dignified space."
- It’s not clear what its refers to (I assume the chapel), since the previous sentence talks about the altar plate and vestments.
- The first sentence seems out of place. What follows is a very general discussion that makes no specific reference to the altar plate and vestments.
The furnishings and pews were designed to blend into the chapel's Celtic Revival style and (according to Teehan) create "a way that represented the spirit and skill of earlier times [that] could be nonetheless be fully appreciated by contemporary society. The overall effect is one of simplicity and restfulness."
- Are you sure be appears twice in the quote?
Such pieces include the circular iron ventilation ceiling panels and the oak chair and kneeler reserved for the president.
- Such pieces doesn’t seem to connect to the preceding sentence which mentions the overall effect. Perhaps tie them together: "…The overall effect is one of simplicity and restfulness." This is manifest in the circular iron…
Most of these fittings were designed by McMullen, most of the remainder, including the 28-long and 3-short oak pews, by Sisk & Son. Changes in liturgy following Vatican II meant that a number of furnishings had to be replaced, a project overseen by the chapel's then dean, Gearóid Ó Súilleabháin.
- Suggest rewrite
The most well known is a large processional cross, a replica of the 12th-century Cross of Cong, which contains a number of inscriptions, including a remembrance for the chapel's benefactors Mathew, Robert and Isabella Honan; and for John and Mary O'Connell.
- well-known
- Insert comma after benefactors (beginning of the appositive) and change semicolon to comma (end of appositive)
The tapestry dossal on the east wall was designed and woven by Gleeson, and contains Celtic symbols borrowed from the Book of Durrow.
- Delete comma after Gleeson OR consider: The tapestry dossal on the east wall, designed and woven by Gleeson, contains Celtic symbols borrowed from the Book of Durrow.
Michael Barry Egan's firm designed and sew many of the vestments.
- sewed
A violet altar cloth with a frontlet, decorated with Celtic interlacing in shades of purple silk, orange and yellow highlights, and a border of lemon and violet cotton satin, is used to decorate the altar and candlesticks.
- Suggest: Covering the altar is a violet altar cloth with a frontlet that is decorated with Celtic interlacing, realized in shades of purple silk with orange and yellow highlights, and a border of lemon and violet cotton satin. The altar also has candlesticks.
The "Black set" of Honan textiles includes an altar frontal with a Celtic cross based on a grave stone from Tullylease Church in Cork, a black cope and hood containing a crown of thorns design and a black chasuble designed for funeral masses containing Celtic interlace patterns.
- Is the hood part of the cope? If so: …in Cork and a black hooded cope with a crown-of-thorns design…Venicescapes (talk) 08:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Administration and liturgical services
The Honan is a separate legal identity to the university and holds the title for its demise, bounded by its back wall and chapel gates.
- Should it be from instead of to?
Its dean is secretary to the Board of Governors of the trust, and manages the staff and finances, and is responsible for the chapel's conservation and maintenance.
- Either delete and after trust OR divide the sentence: Its dean is secretary to the Board of Governors of the trust. He manages the staff and finances and is responsible for the chapel's conservation and maintenance.
The Honan holds daily and Sunday masses, as well as memorial services for deceased students and staff.
- Delete comma after masses
Morning prayers are held each Monday, and daily during Advent and Lent.
- Delete comma after Monday
It hosts an average of 150 wedding services per year for graduates, which is a funding source for the chapel.
- Change is to are: services … are
It also host a number of musical and other cultural events.
General
Some overall impressions: I think you still need to work with image placement and sizes. For example, the images on the right have four different widths (in addition to the Info box). This creates a jagged effect as you scroll down. Some of the images on the left are pushing some of the principal section headings towards centre and also pushing down into unrelated sections. Again, you have multiple widths. The gallery at the bottom doesn’t seem integrated. The impression is that it contains left-over images. If you reduce the width of the image “Wooden carvings by Imogen Stuart” to a standard width, it should enable you to move the tabernacle image to the right. Try a multi-image template or a gallery for all three images of the mosaics. Consider moving the Albert of Cashel and Finbarr images from the gallery into the appropriate sections (again using multi-image templates).
- I've been intending to take more pics, but between lock down and the fact that there is a baglog of weddings now being held, its been very difficult to get access. ATM am orientating the images as to how they will look once complete...ie one per Clarke window. I take your other points....Ceoil (talk) 13:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Gallery hidden per above, widths standardised, not sure about multi-image template just yet. Ceoil (talk) 22:31, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
You cover a great deal of information with considerable detail. But the relevance is not always clear. For example: is it important to know that the seamstresses names are included in the border? If so, why? Is it significant that 28 of the pews are long and 3 are short?
Can you include a floor plan? Also, an elevation of the walls with the positions of the various windows would be very helpful.
- I've asked my brother to do one up, and release rights (dunno how to myself) Ceoil (talk) 22:28, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
In the stained-glass section, you cover a great deal of information, but the sequence varies. You have age of the window, position, subject matter, saints’ legends, and aesthetic qualities. I would recommend a standard sequence to help orient the reader.Venicescapes (talk) 08:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- Venicescapes, agree and thinking about this. Ceoil (talk) 22:28, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
- Have decided against as it might become formulaic and repetitive. Ceoil (talk) 22:07, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
- Venicescapes I think I am up to date with you except for image galleries and standardising the flow of the saints windows. Re images, am in a holding position as we are in lock down again, and the chapel is closed. Myabe I will comeback with new pics in a month or so. Re your suggestion re saints, working on that now. Ceoil (talk) 19:22, 18 October 2020 (UTC)