Talk:Hidden Lake Academy

167.206.63.34

A certain 167.206.63.34 added in the capped phrases. I deleted them, especially as he was so kind as to make it appear as if I put them in there on the Talk page. Obviously not a NPOV, not citing any sources, etc. --Yodamace1 21:22, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Sources of information regarding abuse at this facility include isaccorp.com, fornits.com, myspace.com. Yodamace is an employee of the facility and is attempting to censor information regarding the practices of the facility.

These allegations may be true, but specific references to reliable sources must be added before such strong statements can be made. Please point to specific web sites or off line resources such as newspaper articles. - SimonP 03:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Isaccorps would be a reliable source if they actually had HLA on their list. Fornits and Myspace's "Hidden Lake Academy" group are merely alumni forums. Also, please see the NPOV article. You can attack HLA all you want on said message boards. You can put said message boards as links on the Wiki page. You can put the students' reaction to the school in a subsection. But you can't make Wikipedia your personal propaganda machine and you can't spread rumors about me because I'm telling you something you don't want to hear. --Yodamace1 14:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC) (PG59)

Hidden Lake Academy employs MANY of the abusive tactics on this watchlist, including such things as "treating homosexuality." HLA USES MANY OF THE ABUSIVE AND ILLEGAL TECHNIQUES SPECIFICIED BY ISAC!

Note that 'treating homosexuality' is not an abusive technique as such (though specific 'treatments' may be) any more than is treatment for any other type of disorder. People who say it is usualy think there is nothing wrong with homosexuality as such. This is a point of view(POV), but cannot be used as the basis of a complaint to WikiPedia, which does not do POV. 170.170.59.138 (talk) 23:52, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I sweated to put your edits into a somewhat acceptable format, but I finally managed to.--Yodamace1 17:07, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Yodamace, for your work to format the additions made to this page. I humbly apologize to you for my harsh criticism and sincerely thank you for including the information that I, as a computer novice, did not properly format.

It's cool. I apologize if I offended you in any way. To learn how to use the Wiki, I recommend going to a large article you're interested in, and clicking "edit." It'll then show you how people formatted the various sub-categories of the article and how much formality is necessary in these types of articles. Always read the "discussion" page though. --Yodamace1 19:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

My original post was edited with the blue word: They are also given their own small common room, although they do NOT have the right to have CDs and walkmen, or any kitchen appliances. I'd like someone to please verify that. --Yodamace1 22:19, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

To the one with IP number 166.102.251.209

Not your propoganda page. Please see the article NPOV. You can also refer back to my criticisms of 167.206.63.34 who seemed to have the exact opposite point of view than you if you don't trust my neutrality. Should you attempt to reattempt to twist this article one more time, I will do everything in my power to have your IP blocked and if that doesn't work, put the article on--at the very least--Wikipedia:Semi-protection policy. In other words, I'll put the article on restrictions for manipulation. --Yodamace1 16:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

New links by 68.174.121.171

These links seem OK, but please put a new description of how they relate to HLA instead of who they are. Also, I don't know why, but the "A START" link works only if you cut and paste it. --Yodamace1 09:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Gee...

I've got some other business to take care of and I really don't have time to take care of this article...it's insane how much this thing gets biased by anonymous people. I'm slapping a NPOV tag on, notifying the Neutrality Project, and leaving it alone. --Yodamace1 10:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC) Changed my mind after someone decided to abuse this immediately and nobody from the NP came to the rescue. I guess I have no choice...I'll just continue to take care of this thing. --Yodamace1 11:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Yodamace1. I am very sorry that no one responed from the Neutrality Project. I just joined recently. I can see some of the issues that may be controversial. Could you please give some direction as to the issues you would like reviewed? Additionally, what direction are the reverts going (pro or con), and do you have a particular affiliation with the institution? I would definitely like to help you make a balanced article. I just need a bit more information to put the issue in prospective.

D. M. Arney, M.A. Neutrality Project 05:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It's fine now...ever since somebody nominated the article for deletion, some admins have taken notice and been keeping it in line. Thanks anyways. --Yodamace1 18:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

More info:

can be found on:

Hidden Lake Academy on Secretprisonsforteens

Hidden Lake Academy on Fornits Wiki

About a possible settlement in the lawsuit

• Settlement should end HLA class action threat , by Matt Aiken, The Dahlonega Nugget,

Covergaard 19:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment by Unsandpiper420

There seems to be a constant edit war going on. Pro-HLA individuals, (which may be either staff or ed consultants) keep editing and placing weasel words, removing facts which would make them look bad, and placing facts which put them in a positive light. They also tend to re-word things to make the page more favorable to the school. Ex-students, Staff, parents, and anti-industry individuals also place weasel words, omit positive facts, and introduce potentially damaging information. there must be some serious editing done to this page. in order to maintain NPOV, ALL the negative and ALL the positive information must be present, and must not be misconstrued like it has been lately. for example, in a previous edit it said that kids are kept in the program at their parents wishes - it is more complicated than that. In my experience, after Fire element, the counselors hold a meeting and decide weather or not to "reccomend" you to stay after graduation. The parents are usually very trusting at that point, and usually go with whatever the counselors say. if the parents decide they dont want to follow the reccomendation, the counselors often sabotage potential future school admissions by writing negative reccomendation letters to the schools. there is also the issue of divorce and/or dual or partial guardianship, which has historically been a major issue at hidden lake. there is plenty of info out there, fornits is a goldmine. somone who knows what they are doing, please make this NPOV article. wikipedia is not a place to advertise a school, nor is it a place to to defame it. Unsandpiper420 20:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Hidden Lake Academy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071211200559/http://www.sacscasi.org/schools/Proceedings_Accredited_SACS_CASI_GA.html to http://www.sacscasi.org/schools/Proceedings_Accredited_SACS_CASI_GA.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110812084814/http://bergermontague.com/pdfs/Hidden%20Lake%20Academy%20Complaint.pdf to http://bergermontague.com/pdfs/Hidden%20Lake%20Academy%20Complaint.pdf
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2006/09/21/news/01hla.txt
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2006/09/27/editorial/letters/02%20stephenson.txt
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• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2007/05/24/breaking_news/01%20hla%20fire.txt
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090608142125/http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2009/06/04/news/09%20hiddenlake.txt to http://www.thedahloneganugget.com/articles/2009/06/04/news/09%20hiddenlake.txt
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Mark Martin

I think Mark Martin should be added to the notable students list due to the serious implications this raises. 1keyhole (talk) 18:24, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

The student is not notable. His great uncle is, but notability is not inherited. The incident is getting media coverage since his notable great uncle apparently accepted money for the student's tuition, without disclosing the gift. That is a big deal, but it does not make the student notable. We don't include students unless they have an English Wikipedia article to show their notability. There are rare exception, when a person would obviously qualify for an article if one were written, but this is not such a case. An article about this student would almost certainly fail WP:BLP1E. Meters (talk) 18:37, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

The great uncle is Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. The edit in question (latest attempt, with source added) is [1]. Meters (talk) 18:41, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Desperate love : a father's memoir

1keyhole, is it possible to have a page number or a quote where this is discussed? I understand that the school is raised in the book, but I'm interested in where the school's program is covered. - Bilby (talk) 09:52, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

there are a number of pages

page 11 the author's son describes the program as brainwashing.

page 119 it lists the various programs the author was in

• suws wilderness program (north carolina)
• hidden lake academy
• Provo canyon school
• home sweet home (new jersey)

1keyhole (talk) 10:02, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but neither of those relate to the text you added it to as a source.

"Peer groups, the school's method of group therapy, started with about ten students and one counselor. Students arrived at all times during the school year and were expected to stay for 18 months. During that time the students received an education tailored for those with learning differences and/or disabilities, and which included group therapy. Like other behavioral modification institutions dedicated to improving behaviors, Hidden Lake Academy put students through different developmental tracks."

Can you let me know where it covers that material? - Bilby (talk) 10:04, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Found exact that talks about group therapy etc page 178. 1keyhole (talk) 10:21, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you give a quote? - Bilby (talk) 10:34, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Without a quote, I need to regard this as unverified and have removed the text. - Bilby (talk) 20:33, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

from the book

"He told me that the brainwashing he was going through at the Hidden Lake Academy therapeutic boarding school in Georgia wasn't working." page 11

Notation page 11 states, "tution was $6000 per month"

"Two: If an escort can't get here today, we can call the local hospital and have Gabe admitted to the psychiatric ward until appropriate transportation is arranged." page 178

"But did really need a locck-down facility for refusing therapy? And was more therapy really the answer?" page 179

"it all began a week earlier when we received a phone call from Todd Gabriel's peer group counselor." page 179

"Maybe it was time to place my faith in my son? Fifteen months is a long time for a boy to be away from his family." page 183

https://web.archive.org/web/20051231154016/http://hiddenlakeacademy.com/ 1keyhole (talk) 08:11, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Great, but none of that is relevant to what you added it to as a source. You cannot use a reference that does not support the text you are referencing. - Bilby (talk) 09:27, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Why are you removing other references that state ridge creek information? 1keyhole (talk) 13:24, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Because you keep adding references that have nothing to do with what you are referencing. You added [2] to "In January 2009, after the bankruptcy hearing, a new branch was started under the name Ridge Creek Wilderness Academy." But the reference doesn't even mention Hidden Lake Academy, and doesn't even say when it was founded. How can you use a source to say that this was founded after the bankruptcy hearing as a new branch of Hidden Lake when it says none of those things? This shouldn't need to be said, but if a reference doesn't support what you are using it to reference, you cannot use that reference. - Bilby (talk) 22:26, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Ridge Creek information

Ridge Creek is listed on the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs back in 2003 link it lists

• address of Ridge Creek : 830 Hidden Lake Road Dahlonega, GA 30533

• website: ridgecreek.org

in 2010 verison this changed to:

• Ridge Creek School

• lists the address as 830 Hidden Lake Road Dahlonega, GA 30533  

• founded 2001

• website:ridgecreekschool.com

Hidden lake website 2010 statement:

Hidden Lake Academy was a therapeutic boarding school in Georgia . It was founded in 1994 and had an extremely strong professional reputation throughout the country. Graduates of the program and their parents continue to stay in touch. Unfortunately in 2006 Hidden Lake was the victim of a petition for a class action suit brought by a handful of parents. Even though the petition was dismissed we were unable to get the unsubstantiated statements off the web . The negative blog sites continued their slanderous attacks. On the advice of our attorneys we changed the name of the academy to Ridge Creek School. Please take a moment to link to each of the following to get a better perspective of what occurred 1keyhole (talk) 04:30, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I wish you would try and work this out before adding isolated facts and OR to the article. As far as I can tell, the Ridge Creek wilderness program was founded in 2001 and operated out of the same location as Hidden Lake Academy, but there is no source that I've seen that connects the two beyond a shared address and one person in common. I suspect that they were owned by the one person, but they were probably independent entites otherwise. So I'm not sure we should be grouping them in the one article. The Ridge Creek wilderness program became Ridge Creek Wilderness, and continued to be operated until 2011. In about 2010, Hidden Creek Academy became Ridge Creek School as a rebranding exercise, shutting down about a year later. I can find no evidence that Creekside Wilderness Academy existed. The problem we've been having is that you've been confusing sources between Hidden Lake and Ridge Creek Wilderness. As least now we have some distinction. - Bilby (talk) 07:59, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Found more information

Page 84 of this hearing report on deceptive marketing from 2008 states basically hidden lake was also known Mountain Brook Academy. [3] 1keyhole (talk) 12:34, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

First, that is a testimony, rather than findings, so it could be mistaken or misleading. That said, it only states that they were allowed to open Mountain Brook Academy on the same site, not that this was a different name for Hidden Lake Academy. It looks like they used the site for multiple ventures, but those ventures were different entities. - Bilby (talk) 13:19, 7 May 2023 (UTC)