Talk:Heavy NP shift

I will be editing this page with background information about Heavy NP shift (HNPS). I will give brief background information but my focus will be on psycholinguistics point of view such as when speakers resort to HNPS.

My concern remains. I am concerned that you are now going to load up this article with content about shifting in general (from a psycholinguistic perspective), failing to realize that heavy NP shift is just one particular manifestation of the shifting mechanism. Neither you nor Rosemary Dechaine has acknowledged my main comment in this regard. Things don't look good. --Tjo3ya (talk) 11:18, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your edits and input. I somewhat disagree with you taking out Wasow's name in the second line of the psycholinguist section and have added it back. I understand your intention was to make the edit more approachable for the public but I don't think having his name removed completely makes it any more approachable than before. I am slowly adding in citations in the actual content (they are fully cited at the bottom), maybe once those are appropriately added it will be better? I have been browsing various Wikipedia pages as a template for this one and having a name in the content doesn't make content unapproachable in my opinion. Thoughts? I am still gathering a bit more information from another study and am getting some advice on my tree for leftward movement. I am also preparing my notes for some content on Japanese HNPS (opposite to English). This information will most likely be uploaded by tomorrow evening. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KaitlynMMartinson (talk • contribs) 06:37, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi Kaitlyn. Encyclopedia articles should not be written like journal articles. In a journal article, it's appropriate and necessary to give credit to individuals by naming them. An encyclopedia article should be more general; it should present information in a more accessible way. The names can appear in the notes, if necessary. Have a look at the other articles your classmates are editing. Those articles are now terrible; they are full of name dropping. Concerning your tree, Ross would never have produced such a tree, since the tree is from the 1990s or later. Ross would, rather, have likely produced a tree structure that is much flatter. My personal view is that shifting is much easier to account for if one assumes a flat syntactic structure. My guess, though, is that your instructor never really taught you about how syntax can work if the structures are flatter. You've likely been endoctrinated into doing syntax in one particular way, a way that assumes that all branching is binary and in terms of phrase structure. I understand that you are under stress because you have got to get this done for the sake of your grade for the course. That is, however, exactly where the problem lies with what RM Dechaine is doing here. The amount of bad content that your classmates are now producing is a shame; it's corrupting the Wikipedia articles on linguistics.--Tjo3ya (talk) 06:53, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I do not appreciate you slandering my classmates and my professor on here. Rose Marie has been extremely supportive through out this process to all of her students. I think that you and her have different opinions as to how Wikipedia should be "policed" and your view seems much more harsh than hers. I have read a few other articles published by students and I don't think they are as bad as you are saying. Wikipedia is a public website so anyone can edit... to shame students who are eager to learn and do research above and beyond course content is condescending and unwelcoming to this field. I am well aware that Ross did not produce the tree I have uploaded. I have read the main parts of his MIT thesis that concern this area and I am trying to put his ideas into a tree that is relevant now.

Ross - "complex NP shift"

X - NP - Y

1 2 3 ---> opt

1 0 3+2

I am aware of other styles of trees that I could use for this page. However as you have chosen a particular style for your own wikipedia pages, I have chosen to edit mine a certain way. This is a PROCESS, it's not permanent. You are right, this is part of my course that will be graded. I will present on this topic and get further feedback so the page will continue to change and get better over time. It is sad that you have to resort to bullying and slandering students trying to learn in your field of study. I have spoken to many faculty in my department including the dedicated librarians for the linguistics department and everyone has been supportive about these projects - it is unfortunate you cannot be the same. I tried to approach you diplomatically and ask to collaborate... deleting my work is not a collaboration nor is it in any way helpful.