Talk:Harvey Mudd College/Archive 1

Negativity

what about the whirlie hazing, the alcohol abuse, the emotional poverty, the suicide in 1995/6, the biotech plans whichi were stopped by pitzer protests (whose student mudders call 'zoids'), etc.

I don't know how notable the "whirlie hazing" is, as I personally was not only never subjected to it, but also never even witness to it. I strongly suspect that the people who are whirled are whirled willingly, as it's not exactly cruel and sounds like its usually done in good fun.

In the early 1981-2 whirling was very common, up to a point. There was "random frosh whirling" events that would try to whirl as many freshman as possible in a single night. Keep in mind that a student needed only say "I will prosecute" and the effort was over. No one wanted to get the school in trouble for hazing. One student was very stressed by the thought of being whirled and his mother contacted the school, putting an end effectively to the practice for the rest of my time there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.255.44.5 (talk) 21:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I actually have seen a mob of westies come to whirl one of my case friends, who told them he was not interested, and they - although quite intoxicated - accepted that and left. Hardly hazing.

I was only present at one whirling... and I never saw or heard of another. Once the whirlee had been inverted over the commode, there was a pause, and his permission was asked. Once he had given his permission to be whirled the top of his head was carefully submerged (with two people standing by to make sure he didn't hit his head, they had also first made sure that the toilet bowl was spotless) and the toilet was flushed. He was then carefully put on his feet and offered a towel. The offense, by the way, was that he had been playing vast quantities of Disco music at high volume, and wouldn't stop, though he had been asked repeatedly to do so!Wikisurfer61 (talk) 13:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to point out that the vast majority of alcohol poisonings on campus have historically been young CMC students who come up for our parties with the sole intent of getting way too drunk. You'd recognize them as the really annoying ones at our parties. This is why they were at some point temporarily banned from them.--Laura Scudder | Talk 06:37, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In terms of the alcohol abuse. Must mudders know that it is there. And there is a great saying at Mudd. There are 3 S's. Sleep. Study. Social Life. At Mudd you can only choose 2.

I don't think that's just a Muddism, even if it is truer at Mudd than most places. —Ben FrantzDale 02:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Recently I've heard "Sleep, Study, Socialize: Choose 1 and a half"...Sarah Thomson

Wally the Wart - mascot?

I don't know if you can really call Wally the Wart Mudd's "mascot". He mostly appears in alumni fund and recruiting mailings, doesn't he? I'm not sure Mudd has a mascot in the usual sense, not having a sports team of its own or anything like that. DenisMoskowitz 19:41, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

True, to a point, but if you were to ask any Mudder "what's Mudd's mascot", the answer would be a quick and unequivical "Wally the Wart". —BenFrantzDale 20:16, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I'll ask some of my fellow alum friends for their opinions. I guess there's not really any better option. DenisMoskowitz 19:43, 2005 Apr 19 (UTC)

Yeah, I included Wally mostly because there was a spot for mascot in the template I stole from Caltech and when pressed he'd be the mascot offered by students. He is, however, not a normal mascot (of course, we don't even have a normal shared sports mascot, what with Stags and Athenas) so I have now marked him as unofficial, which I believe is his actual status. We could switch to Template:Infobox University, which doesn't have a mascot field but is a bit wider. --Laura Scudder | Talk 21:34, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mudd is part of the CMC/HMC/Scripps teams (http://www.cmsathletics.org/landing/index) as part of the Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. Pomona/Pitzer, CalTech, Occidental, and others are also part of the conference. The men's soccer game between CMS and CalTech is often called the "Cannon Bowl." The men's groups are the Stags, the women's groups are the Athena's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrhain (talk • contribs) 02:33, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Precise pranks

Noting the emphasis on precision in the "More pranks" section, if only the walls of the unfortunate student's room were lined, wouldn't there have been quite a leak? --Blainster 20:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I know that a very similar prank did result in it "raining" into my friend's dorm room in 1985. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodardr (talk • contribs) 22:56, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Plumbing In Case

I lived in case for 4 years and I don't remember the plumbing ever having a problem. I do remember having to change the bathrooms every year from male to female to mixed, depending on the hall makeup and the whims of the residents.

You never noticed the ridiculous difficulty in getting consistent water temperature and pressure in the showers? Or the constant problems with the sinks? I guess you have no other dorm experiences to compare it to. Believe me that the plumbing in Atwood at least was far more reliable than that in Case. — Laura Scudder | Talk 21:06, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Frosh Chem prank should be added. How many colleges have almost all upperclass in all dorms prank the frosh on one day of the year?

No it should not! I'm considering removing the one (albeit oblique) reference as it is. Prospective/admitted students view this page. - Edit: I just removed it. Sarah Thomson 03:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I live in East this year, and I'm living in Case next year. I can report any interesting differences in a few months (well, okay, WP:NOR applies). --Goobergunch|? 16:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

New alumni categories

If you have an account on wikipedia and are an alumni or current student of HMC, feel free to edit your personal user page and add this text to the bottom of it.

[[Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Harvey Mudd College|{{PAGENAME}}]]

For actual wiki articles about famous alumni, this text should be used instead:

[[Category:Harvey Mudd College alumni|Last, First]]

--Bovineone 08:32, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

"Don't be a jackass"?

Right after the statement of the Honor Code, a recent edit added the comment: "Students generally condense this to the rather more direct 'Don't be a jackass.'"

Is this "condensed form" of recent origin? Is it actually in common use throughout campus? Is it taken sufficiently seriously by those who use it to make it worth noting in this Wikipedia article? Because the gut feeling I get from "Don't be a jackass" is rather different than the gut feeling I had about the Honor Code while I was at Mudd. I'm sure that "don't be a jackass" is a part of what I thought the Honor Code meant, but it doesn't feel like it captures remotely close to the whole thing.

In short, it's hard for me to believe that Mudders' take on the Honor Code has actually become this shallow. So unless current Mudders assure me that it has, I don't think it's reasonable to portray it that way in the article.--Steuard 18:44, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

• Well, it was used frequently at orientation....I don't think it's really the whole honor code, but it's an abbreviated form of the spirit of the honor code. At least that's the vibe I get, although I'm leaning towards forwarding this to one of the Mudd mailing lists for opinions. --Goobergunch|? 19:03, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure "don't be a jackass" belongs here, but I when I was there, "don't be a jackass" was taken very seriously. At orientation, they summarized the honor code as stemming from three principles: "Don't be a jackass", "Don't stock the women", and "Not on your roommate's stuff". Obviously "Don't be a jackass" is a basis for the other two. So in Mudd circles "Don't be a jackass" has more meaning than just the words and is a reference to the honor code and to civil behavior in general. So yes, when a Mudder says "Don't be a jackass", it isn't just a flippant comment. —BenFrantzDale 19:19, 20 September 2005 (UTC) (HMC '03)

Weird. I don't recall the phrase being used at all while I was there (I graduated in '98). For me, "Don't be a jackass" sounds like bare-bones common decency; the Honor Code goes way beyond that. Also, this phrase (like your other two examples) is centered on personal behavior, but doesn't seem relevant at first glance to things like academic honesty. (Most Mudders would probably think of cheaters and plagarists as jackasses, but I'm not sure that the population at large would make that connection so strongly.) In any case, thanks to both of you for the more recent information.

Thanks too for adding the bit about exams, by the way; I almost added something along those lines myself, but I didn't want to mix new additions with my potentially more controversial deletion. And then I decided that I'd really rather just edit the whole article at some point (I'm probably letting the perfect become an enemy of the good in that respect, but hey). My wife has a story about a timed take-home exam in one Mudd class that was closed-book, with one exception: the students first had to look up the exam problems, which were actual exercises from the book!--Steuard 21:35, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

My understanding is that "Don't be a jackass" is rule 1 (rule 0 for CS majors), but relatively unrelated to the honor code. I think the men are the only ones who are told not to be jackasses at orientation (the other two rules given with it are meant for men). I mostly hear "don't be a jackass" cited in more trivial or humorous situations, like cheating at ITR games or a particularly mean prank - never in relation to issues of academic integrity, where the honor code is invoked. ^L_Wizard @ 02:36, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I graduated in '91, was on the judiciary committee, but never heard that particular phrase used. So unless it is included with appropriate date for when it was in use, I'd suggest it does not belong as a general statement. --Scott, 21:34, 24 February 2006.

My understanding is that "Don't be a Jackass" came from me. I gave a few orientation talks while I was there between 97 and 01, and one year I kept falling back on that as the only real rule you need. It's kind of catchy, and I found out years later that people kept saying it, and that it's an semi-official part of orientation. I've talked to a few '11 students that did orientation and were given it to use as a rule. --Erik Nelson HMC'01, Nov 5 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.13.230.170 (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Nobels

Looking for info on Mudd Nobel Prize winners. Google search only returned Robert Kelley, who sort of shared it with 2,200 others at the IAEA. Any other info?

I don't know that we have enough grads old enough to get the Nobel. They typically give those many decades after the work is done. — Laura Scudder ☎ 01:04, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Good point. At the moment, no Mudd graduate has lived to age 75. The early graduating classes were small, so the number of Mudd grads old enough to have a shot at the Nobel Prize is quite small. —BenFrantzDale 22:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Puddle Jump

There were so many traditions at Mudd that brought out a big percentage of the school. Puddle jump was one of them. People from all Dorms East or North, West or South or the new dorms would get together to have one last night of fun before spring finals. This should be included to show that there is a tight night community at Mudd

Puddle Jump used to bring out a big percentage of the school, from all dorms? That no longer seems to be the case. Sorry. ^L_Wizard @ 04:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

DragoonWraith 23:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC): I've heard rumor that Scripps doesn't let us do it anymore at all on their college, which kind of ruins it...

College presidents and other trivia

Would it maybe be useful to list all of the college's presidents? Maybe in a new section or as a part of the trivia section?

1956-1976: Joseph B. Platt; 1976-1988: D. Kenneth Baker; 1988-1997: Henry E. Riggs; 1997-2006: Jon C. Strauss; 2006-: Maria M. Klawe (elect)

How about also finding out the specifics and adding a trivia item for the list of professors that also attended HMC? I know of at least Gerald R. Van Hecke, but I think there are also others?--Bovineone 03:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Lyzenga is the only other current one I know. There was a math prof a few years back who had been an Eastie, but he didn't get tenure. — Laura Scudder ☎ 15:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I think you're thinking of Dave Fisher. 65.91.98.102 22:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Greg Levin was a visiting professor for some time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.31.192.5 (talk) 15:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I take that back, Yong also went to Mudd. He graduated with some insane GPA. — Laura Scudder ☎ 15:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Also Profs. Duron, Olson, and Orwin. --Goobergunch|? 21:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

POV

"Though thought a coup by the Mudd students, most Caltech students were in fact happy to see the cannon gone, as Fleming House is considered unpopular and obnoxious by most of the campus." This statement is POV. OK, it might be true. Fleming House is also admired and respected by many. --Marcusscotus1 02:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Even if Caltech folks didn't really care (and I have no idea if that is true or not) the phrasing above is POV. —Ben FrantzDale 02:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I've never met anyone who admired or respected Fleming House, who was not themselves a Flem. --GaeusOctavius 05:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am a Flem! --Marcusscotus1 14:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the lack of respect has something to do with the name... I mean Flegm, surely you could come up with something nicer sounding?76.175.153.51 (talk) 14:45, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Photo

We need a photo of Mudd taken down looking at the library. A simple shot of the sign is a bit weak. —Ben FrantzDale 03:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I might be out there this summer. If it isn't done by then I'll take some photos. — Laura Scudder ☎ 19:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's a picture I took looking out of the 5th floor of Sprague library[1]. Unfortunately, the angles don't lend themselves to showing very much of the campus. I also have [2] [3]. If you think any of them are good enough, I'd be happy to contribute them. -- Bovineone 04:02, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I like that first one - makes Mudd look almost...attractive! :) Sarah Thomson 03:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I've added the first one to the article. -- Bovineone 05:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Pranks

Are these pranks really worth noting? They don't sound especially impressive.

I concur. The pranks listed in the prank section, except for the Dean of Faculty one, are not the ones that are particularly well-known at Mudd. I have a better list of "Big Pranks", such as Platt Tacos and Rusto, that don't include the ones listed. Heck, I'd argue that the recent Hoch prank that I was involved in was bigger than some of those listed. --Goobergunch|? 08:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, what about the one that was in one of the HMC brochures I got a while back? It was something about some guys tilting a VW Bug on its side and placing it inside one of the dorm hallways. From what I can remember about the photo (black & white), it was some time ago. If it's good enough to make the brochure... Poofyspikes 00:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I can say with confidence that moving the surveyor's pegs was considered rather impressive at the time. It impressed president Baker to consider throwing us out of college. It impressed some of the most difficult to impress faculty as being extremely funny. It impressed my bank account to the tune of about $700 at a time when that was the monthly take home pay of a grad student. Luckily it didn't impress anyone enough to press charges as it is a felony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.255.44.5 (talk) 21:28, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a policy against original research. Can you find mentions of any of this in reliable sources? tedder (talk) 21:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Number of alumni?

Looking at the list of notable alumni, it seems notable that there are relatively few Mudd grads total. I recal hearing that there are on the order of 4000 living Mudd alums. Assuming not too many have died, then this list of 23 notables is about 0.5% of all alums ever. —Ben FrantzDale 04:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Rivalry with Caltech

This section seems PoV to me. A rivalry requires that there be more than 1 side competing (for whatever) - if this "rivalry" is "basically unacknowledged" by Caltech, then I would suggest that terming it as a rivalry is quite PoV. Are there any corrobrating sources that aren't from HMC, or is this literally a case of HMC students saying "we're rivals", and Caltech saying there is no rivalry? If the latter, changes need to be made.

Furthermore, the end of the section, "Harvey Mudd eventually returned the cannon after the Caltech President threatened to take legal action" seems to contradict the earlier statement about the 24-huor policy. Would someone care to clarify? --1of42 22:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

There are a lot of so-called "one-way rivalries." Mudd thinks it's rivals with CalTech, who thinks it's rivals with MIT, who thinks it's rivals with Harvard, who probably thinks it's rivals with Oxford or something.

My understanding is that the Caltech president threatened legal action as his first step. Had he asked us to return the cannon (i.e. reverse the prank), I'm sure we would've. ^L_Wizard @ 22:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

DragoonWraith 23:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC): Also, I was under the impression that the reversibility rule was not always in effect (and that when it, along with the rule to leave a phone number to contact the prankee, was first established, every Professor received a note saying to "call this number to reverse the prank", leaving many of them paranoid, since they had not observed any pranking. As I heard the story, the number was to the President's office) - I don't know any of the dates involved, or even if this is true, but that may have played a role.

As for our rivalry with CalTech, to Mudders, it's very real. I don't know what CalTech thinks of it, but we definitely relish the thought of beating them at anything. In fact, we probably feel that way because they don't acknowledge the rivalry - it seems really elitist and stuck-up of them, which is why we feel the need to show them up (and as far as I know, we have consistently done).

I think the current section is reasonably decent. The "rivalry", whether it is or not, hardly pervades campus life and is mostly dormant, but there are a few historical incidents of note (from 20 years ago), and we note those. It's easy for student-cruft and alum-cruft to sneak into Wikipedia articles on universities, but I don't think this section is an example. --Delirium 09:30, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Julian

Hey you guys, Julian Freed-Brown actually does go to HMC, he lives in West along with all the other cool people. Please let him stay on the Wiki-page. It is not incorrect information.

Just because it is correct doesn't mean it's notable. Unless Julian is a famous person I haven't heard of, there's no reason to include him. Hundreds of other people go to Mudd. See Wikipedia:Notability (people). —Ben FrantzDale 01:35, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there a wikipage qualifying trivial?

If you want to argue that "The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person." by quibbling about the meaning of "trivial," I must direct you to Rule 1. Seriously guys, having worthless trivia in the article just because you think it's funny reflects poorly on the school and on Wikipedia. If that doesn't suffice, you might find your answer at WP:WL. ^L_Wizard @ 11:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think Julian Freed-Brown is a junior champion fencer. I don't think that makes him very notable, though. -sthomson 21:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous 5 Feb Assertion Contradicts Official HMC Admissions Check List

Unless anyone can corroborate the last paragraph in the Reputation section, we intend to Undo that edit, since HMC makes no such statement on its Admissions webpage. 68.183.87.145 12:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

According to a more relevant source HMC will be accepting the ACT soon. ^L_Wizard @ 13:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added that press release as a reference to the article. --Delirium 12:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

1986 Drug bust

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the name of the guy who was storing materials on his balcony in New (Atwood) Dorm to make meth (he did that off-campus at motel rooms on Foothill, as I recall). I met him a few years later one late night in the West Dorm lounge, but can't for the life of me remember his name. 65.91.98.102 22:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't know the name, but I do remember the incident; the rumor was that (among other things) there was a five gallon glass jar of ether.--Justfred 23:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe that was Steve Leichty, a junior, who then left Mudd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisbang (talk • contribs) 01:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

SAT Scores need updating

The sat scores need to be updated, follow the link and you will notice that they are different 75.182.102.162 04:04, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

What about WIBSTR?

WIBSTR?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orbst (talk • contribs) 17:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Grade inflation

Is it worth mentioning that Mudd is one of the lowest in the country in terms of grade inflation? Triathematician (talk) 18:49, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

If you have a source, it'd certainly be notable. But I doubt you could find a source for that. MrVibrating (talk) 19:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It's claimed in a number of sources, and I believe the school itself claims it on its standard cover letters and transcripts. Here's one source: Donald Asher (2007). Cool Colleges. Ten Speed Press. pp. p. 83. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help): "Swarthmore is one of four colleges with virtually no grade inflation. (Harvey Mudd, Reed, and Sewanee are the others.)" --Delirium (talk) 20:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hmc seal.png

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Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Page improvements?

Alumni weekend is coming up. I want to improve this and other articles while I'm there. I see a need for pictures of the campus for this page as well as some people that may be there.

• Maria Klawe
• Nick Pippenger
• Ran Libeskind-Hadas
• Dominic Mazzoni '98
• J. Kim Vandiver '68
• Michael G. Wilson '63

Do any of you have any other particular pictures in mind? Does anyone else want to help? —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 00:50, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

As a warning, it may be hard to track down Ran. He's on sabbatical this year, and unlike so many professors he's actually spending it somewhere else. He might be around for alumni weekend, but very well might not.

Also, as an alternative to taking pictures of these people, you could just write them asking to license a photo appropriately. That shouldn't be much more awkward than asking them to pose, I imagine. ^L_Wizard @ 02:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Students with 4.0 GPA

I changed the number to 5 since I know that Jason Hogan '03 got a 4.0. There was a source for number 4, but I can't find anything that lists Jason's on Mudd's site. Anyone know of a source for this? -- ColinLittle (talk) 04:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Highly selective in the lead

The phrase "highly selective" has no place in the article, least of all in the opening sentence of the lead, which is why I have removed it. It is a weasel phrase and peacock term that conveys no actual meaning than to serve as boosterism for the institution. Furthermore, no institution or publication classifies colleges as "highly" selective, so it's not even verifiable. Assert facts, not opinions and just describe the admissions numbers (number of applicants, number admitted, number matriculated, and freshmen retention) in the body of article and don't tell the reader what to think. Madcoverboy (talk) 18:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is there a section on Caltech in the Harvey Mudd College article

No one talks about Caltech here, or thinks about Caltech. It's almost demeaning that an entire section is devoted to it in the article on Harvey Mudd College. Either delete that section or make the article much longer, or both. Sections that could be added include Clinic, the current direction of the school (closure of Sprague, North Campus/Bernard Field Station, the new Teaching and Learning Center, etc), a brief description of the culture and cultural history each dorm, the school's relationship with each of the other four Claremont colleges (particularly Scripps), a description of each academic department, a section on the food (the Hoch, Jay's Place, etc), and an up-to-date picture of the student body. 134.173.59.66 (talk) 09:58, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Victoria's Secret Scandal

I don't think that this section is particularly notable... It's also not very accurate, as Mudd's tally hasn't particularly changed since October 20th (and most of the interesting voting happened between October 7th and 9th). Oh, and the section is rather unsourced. But I think I'm going to go ahead and stick with notability as my primary issue with it... --Roguelazer (talk) 22:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Highest Paying College Degrees

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Highest-paying-college-cnnm-1865422139.html?x=0Umishiru (talk) 11:09, 23 July 2010 (UTC)