Talk:Harrow, London

University of Westminster

If it's in Brent then it's not in Harrow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 14:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Removal of sentence from lead

"It is also the place where Syed Qalbe Abbas Kazmi lives." I have removed this sentence from the beginning of the lead. It doesn't seem appropriate. Perhaps a section for notable people could be included in the article. However, it's unclear whether the person in question is notable. Anne (talk) 14:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Companies in Harrow

Business in Harrow https://london-biz.co.uk/city/Harrow/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.167.101.43 (talk) 11:43, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 26 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:00, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

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• Harrow, London → Harrow
• Harrow → Harrow (disambiguation)

– Harrow is very well recognised as the town. There's no need for a disambiguation page, and it is by far the most notable place bearing this name (compared to the other places in the disambiguation). This article's lead also already mentions the Harrow School and Borough. CastleCapt (talk) 02:57, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know it was a place-name, just that it was an agricultural tool. Even if this is the most commonly-known place with the name, it's not necessarily what people expect when they look up harrow.138.88.18.245 (talk) 03:31, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. So sorry, however your reasoning seems local as opposed to the global reasoning required by Wikipedia. There are several entries on that dab page, so it's not going anywhere. A limited page views analysis shows the school getting about four times as many views as Harrow, London, and the TV series averages nearly ten times the page views. Now we look at "long term significance" per the editing guideline. While the surname and the tool don't get a lot of pageviews, they have both been around for a long, long time. The origin of the tool is in fact lost in antiquity. So I must with no small compunction oppose this request. Again, sorry, but I don't think there really is a primary topic here. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 03:40, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: You're right that there are several entries on the dab page, but I've seen a lot longer than that, e.g. Preston or Sutton. If you look at Harrow's dab page notice that about half of the entries are all related in a way to the borough/town of Harrow in question - it's a lot less varied compared to those two. I see Harrow's dab page to be very similar to Bromley (disambiguation), and in that case Bromley is not a dab page but the town in England, just as I'm proposing for Harrow.

I predicted before this that page views was going to be mentioned. Yes it's true that Harrow School gets many more views - however we can take a look at Wembley Stadium, which (calculating with the tool you've used) got 9 times more views in the past year than Wembley, yet still Wembley is not a dab page. The same could be said about Twickenham Stadium which gets more views than Twickenham, or Glastonbury Festival which gets 4 times more views than Glastonbury. In that same perspective I see that Harrow should be its own article as the town, and not a dab.

A Google search for "Wembley" makes Google show info about the Stadium on the right hand side (on desktop); for "Twickenham" it shows their Stadium; "Glastonbury" would show the Festival; but searching for "Harrow", Google shows the "Town in England" instead, and in my opinion that's an important distinction that strengthens the case that Harrow town is a primary topic. I predict that is bound to increase further now since I've made tons of additions to the article in the past few days.

As for global reasoning, we can see from the dab page that other the 4 other places called Harrow (in Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Oz) are all very minor, small places. None of them are notable, unlike this Harrow in England. Look for example at Canterbury (disambiguation), which has a lot more entires than Harrow and yet the main article is the city in Kent, Canterbury.

I hope this sheds some light as for why I think this move is suitable. --CastleCapt (talk) 16:58, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

WP:DABCONCEPT might be the link you're looking for. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:46, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose If there was only a few items on the dismabig page, then maybe WP:PRIMARYTOPIC would apply. However, in this case, there are dozens of listings. The current status quo makes it much easier to spot incorrect incoming links too. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:15, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: It's true that there are many dab listings of Harrow, but it is noticably less than for example Preston or Sutton, which are way more. Harrow's seems a lot more modest by comparison, and about half the listings are in a way related to the town/borough of Harrow in question. Bromley for example has many disambiguations too (very similar to Harrow dab) but the main article is the town in London in question. I feel like Harrow's dab page is very much like Bromley's - a lot less than Preston or Sutton. Also I mentioned some other bits above to the other person as for why this move is suitable. --CastleCapt (talk) 16:58, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, as per above.---Ehrenkater (talk) 17:06, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 1 January 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck███ 19:16, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

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• Harrow, London → Harrow
• Harrow → Harrow (disambiguation)

– I believe Harrow, London is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of Harrow. I proposed this last year (under my previous user account) but without statistics, and my further reasoning clearly fell on deaf ears. I have used the pageview analysis tool (as stated on WP:PRIMARYTOPIC) to compare all the listed articles on that disambiguation page solely named "Harrow". Permalink of the analysis: .

The Harrow disambiguation page lists several links where the topic/subject is solely named "Harrow". The statistics show Harrow, London is neck and neck with Harrow (tool) in terms of page views. Both of these have 14x more views than the other six combined. However it should be noted that:

• Harrow, London, has had 276 edits vs. 44 for Harrow (tool)
• 132 editors vs. 28 for Harrow (tool)
• It is 57k bytes in size compared to 8k for Harrow (tool). In fact its size is more than the other seven combined.

As you notice I have excluded Harrow (TV series). The reason is, as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC tells us, long-term significance is a key criteria for a primary topic. Harrow (TV series) is an Australian TV drama that has existed since 2018. On the other hand, Harrow, London is the name of a town and borough with a population similar to Oxford's, that has existed for well over a century. Harrow (tool) is a generic name that also bears somewhat long-term significance compared to Harrow (TV series).

I believe Harrow, London is a primary topic over Harrow (tool) due to the figures stated above (significantly more edits, users, content) but on top of that the much larger number of pages that link to it. Using Special:WhatLinksHere I see that 900+ articles link to Harrow, London. Meanwhile for Harrow (tool) the figure is 100+ articles. This means 9x more articles link to Harrow, London than it does to Harrow (tool). If you can't consider these points qualifying as primary then I don't know what does. These points prove the notability of Harrow, London that I believe without doubt makes it a primary topic and should be moved to Harrow.

References

– Jf81 (talk) 18:37, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Note: Harrow titles a dab page with significant content and so is ineligible as a new page title unless it is also proposed to be renamed. This request has been altered to reflect that fact. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 23:53, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

• Weak oppose the tool has enough long-term significance and views (though it is already primary for Harrows) and the TV series is ahead on usage for the town alone though the borough and school are sub topics its not likely the town is primary in general. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:53, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

The TV series lacks long-term significance unlike the town and tool. Also neither Oxford, Cambridge, Twickenham, Wembley or Glastonbury are disambiguations despite their strong links to their respective institutions/stadia/event. --Jf81 (talk) 19:00, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Unlike those the TV series has nothing to do with the settlement its self. By views the suburb has 5,728 views and the borough has 5,006 which makes 10,734 for the place in London per WP:DABCONCEPT and the school has 19,735 so there's possibly a few there but the TV series has 15,845 so unless the school is often called "Harrow" alone its not plausible at all that readers are mush more likely to be looking for the place in London than the TV series and the tool has 4,431[[1]] so I think that there's enough competition that there is no primary topic by either criteria. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:07, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose it's not just the hoe, but also the school. - even if the target passed both criteria for WP:PT by a good margin, you'd still need to argue WP:CRITERIA whether a primary redirect wasn't more helpful to readers. Leave as is. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:39, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose we can't just ignore the TV show here. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:12, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry but that show just doesn't have the long-term notability, at all, and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC says that is a necessity. It's a show aired for 2 years, while the town is a name centuries old, it's not comparable to the likes of Coronation Street. --Jf81 (talk) 00:32, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. Heard of the school, certainly of the tool. Never heard of this place. Seems narrowly parochial. Walrasiad (talk) 03:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

That view violates WP:NWFCTM. --Jf81 (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

• Strong oppose. There is very clearly no primary topic here - even for me with my London-biased search results the first page brings up results about the school, the college, the settlement, the borough and the University of Westminster campus. For those outside London who do less searching for geographical places than I do then I would expect the tool to be up there too. Thryduulf (talk) 17:57, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose move. No clear primary topic, and it's only been around nine months since the last RM. O.N.R. ^(talk) 01:02, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. I think the "solely named Harrow" part of the analysis is potentially misleading. Many people who reach the DAB page will be looking for the school or the borough, which should be included in any statistics-based argument despite their formal titles including words other than "Harrow". Tevildo (talk) 11:50, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

  Well I think WP:DABCONCEPT does apply since as noted by the nom (in the previous RM) those are linked in the article however as noted even if we include views for the borough (and some for the school) this still doesn't have more pageviews than the other unrelated meanings. As an interesting point Harrow is the only London borough that had post 1965 boundaries see User:Crouch, Swale/District split though we do have a separate article for it. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:47, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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"Eastman Village" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Harrow View" listed at Redirects for discussion

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