Talk:HM Prison Northallerton

Propose removing the infobox

Right now the article has an "infobox prison" on it, which gives a few parameters about the prison as of 2007. But the article (now) discusses the whole 225 years of the prison's operation, and as the prison is defunct and empty there's no "current" values for any of these. It seems arbitrary and misleading to have an infobox which gives the population, class, and governor of the prison for only one specific date - these have all varied considerably over that extensive period. So I think the infobox is counterproductive and confusing, and I propose to remove it. All that's worth saving (for inclusion into the ordinary article text) is the 2007 population - but I don't know where that's sourced from. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 20:55, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

The prison population in 2007 would have probably been sourced from the Ministry of Justice website that is listed in the same infobox (now offline). This infobox could be added to, for instance additions of its historic functions with dates (not just Young offenders). I think seeing as plans for the redevelopment of the prison site are still being formulated we should wait before getting rid of the infobox... as the situation becomes clear a more appropriate infobox (such as historic building etc) may be more appropriate... Bleaney (talk) 22:57, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. They have an outline plan for the redevelopment (which I think retains all of the listed buildings) but I don't think they have outline planning permission or a developer yet. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 08:15, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

D&S - note

Just a note that the Darlington and Stockton Times article of today, which says "male and female adult prisoners, women with children, youth offenders, and military prisoners" is copying us verbatim, and not the other way around. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 22:27, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Notes from HDC's leaflet

For the September 2017 open days, Hambleton District Council and York Archeological Trust produced a leaflet for visitors. This should be a reliable source, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to to have a proper title or document control number, and they publish it online. So that makes it rather difficult for others to verify, and consequently I'm reluctant to cite it in the article. Most of what it says we already have, but the following facts aren't in the article yet, and if we can find verifiable sources for them, that would improve the article:

• Before the original prison was build in 1783, the site was the town rubbish dump and a "pinfold" where stray cattle were impounded. There was also a pond where coach horses were washed and grazed
• The female wing was closed to women in 1904
• The treadmill (whcih was probably in the SE corner) was installed in 1821, and abolished in 1892. It was used to pump water, and to grind grain for local farmers.
• The leaflet repeats the assertion that the treadmill was the largest in the world.
• The governor's house was latterly used as the education block.
• Latterly the female wing was used to house prisoners at the end of their sentence, or working in the community.

-- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 14:22, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Note: ref for glasshouse riots

As a note (mostly to myself) - the D&S has a story about the 1946 glasshouse riots, which has more info that our current refs, and discusses prisoners escaping (which I didn't know about at all). http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/15668260._quot_Pandemonium_broke_out_quot___The_day_Northallerton_was_brought_to_a_standstill_by_rioting_prisoners/ -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 22:19, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

On redevelopment phases

They've agreed plans for the first part of the redevelopment (a Lidl and some other shops). This isn't the full site, so presumably other phases will be announced later (once they've got funding and partners); sources about the phase 1 announcment (including the Northern Echo story linked, and Minster FM's) are still talking about "managed workspaces, restaurants, a cinema, an area for public events and a heritage centre". But as far as I can tell, all of that is just the council/developers' aspirations (not a real, concrete, funded, actual plan), so I'm reluctant to add that into the article, bar the handwavy stuff that's already there. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 14:50, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

And to look at the renders of the proposal, the Lidl unit and car park takes up almost all of the open area of the site, leaving mostly only the heritage buildings and the rather small areas of land around and north of them. It's hard to imagine all those fun things fitting into what's left. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 15:22, 5 April 2018 (UTC)