Talk:Greenlandic language/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

kalaallisut is not the native name of the Greenlandic language

This article says (here and here) that the native name of Greenlandic is kalaallisut, but this is incorrect. kalaallisut is the native name of the dialect of Greenlandic spoken by the Kalaallit in West Greenland (known in English as West Greenlandic); the literal translation of kalaallisut is "language of the Kalaallit". Strangely enough, Greenlandic doesn't have a native name (as far as I know at least). There should be an editnotice for this article to prevent editors who don't know any better from adding kalaallisut back as the native name of Greenlandic, as it is a common misconception. – Treetoes023 (talk) 19:42, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• Pinging relevant Wikipedia (members of WikiProject Greenland) – (@Valjean, Valentinian, Badbilltucker, Maunus, Keesiewonder, Thedec, KHarber, Jensbn, Nidator, Leitz, Hamiltonstone, Allstrak, Uyvsdi, Kuba.greenland, Wabba The I, Loopygrumpkins, Spongie555, Angelikfire, Ahalenia, Titodutta, Jakeybean, Exoplanetaryscience, Coin Collecting John, Pmt, Buaidh, Xufanc, AusLondonder, PolarFlyer, Fmrauch, LloydGrasm3, Thanoscar21, Eru Rōraito, Chongkian, Kaffe42, and AdoroCibo:) – Treetoes023 (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• (Responding as someone who knows almost nothing about it, but reasoning it out using deduction and inference to try to zoom in on what the situation is.) Not only are you right, but the body of the article says you are. Kalaallisut is even one of the two dialects listed in the infobox. It's so clearly contradictory that I've removed the two instances you pointed out that conflict with the facts. The articles does supply a minor defense of the usage, where it says The name Kalaallisut is often used as a cover term for all of Greenlandic. However, for the article to use it that way at the same time that it tells us at length that it's only one of the dialects is a problem.

Regarding a native term to refer to the language overall, or to a standard variety of it, the article does say that "The standard language is based on the central Kalaallisut dialect spoken ...". This implies that a standard is recognized, so surely they give it a name. The English translation I found of Chapter 7 (titled "Language") of the 2009 Act on Greenland Self-Government says, in its entirety, "Greenlandic shall be the official language in Greenland." I wonder how this reads in the Greenlandic version. Largoplazo (talk) 21:48, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Well, here you go: the translation says 'Kalaallit oqaasii tassaapput Kalaallit Nunaanni pisortatigoortumik oqaatsit'. Which obviously has the literal meaning 'the language of the Kalaallit is the official language in the Land of the Kalaallit'.

But, equally obviously, just as the article Kalaallit states, Kalaallit 'is also a contemporary term in the Greenlandic language for the indigenous of Greenland' in general. In other words, the standard Greenlandic terms for West Greenlandic and for Greenlandic in general are the same, just as the standard Greenlandic terms for West Greenlanders and for Greenlanders in general are. There is nothing too odd about this, compare Sweden (Sverige) - originally 'the realm of the Svear', who were just one tribe in the Uppsala area in what is now eastern Sweden - and England, originally just 'the land of the Angles', who were just one tribe in central/north-eastern England).

The Greenlandic Wikipedia page corresponding to Greenlandic has the title Kalaallisut. Every possible source, dictionary (https://ordbog.gl/2003-dan-kal/#e11100), web translator (https://nutserut.gl/) etc. will give you either Kalaallisut or kalaallit oqaasii as a translation of 'Greenlandic'.

If anything, the thing in need of correction is that Kalaallisut is primarily an adverbial phrase meaning " 'in Greenlandic " rather than a noun denoting the language (compare how Romanes is sometimes used as a noun for Romani, when it is actually an adverbial phrase 'in Romani'); the proper name would be kalaallit oqaasii, 'the language of the Greenlanders' or, even more literally, 'the words of the Greenlanders.'

The previous change has a very politically undesirable effect, since the Danish name is preserved: this implies that Danish is more important than Greenlandic, that Greenlandic is just one exotic peculiarity of the Danish realm, or possibly that Greenlandic is so primitive that it doesn't even have a word for itself. So I think that one or more Greenlandic expression(s) should be restored sooner rather than later.--Anonymous44 (talk) 11:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• West Greenlandic/Kalaallisut is the de facto standard language, and Kalaallisut is in most contexts translated as simply "Greenlandic", with "West" only added when specifically contrasting with Inuktun and Tunumiit Oraasiaat. Additionally the variety described in the article is Kalaallisut, so the article *is* about Kalaallisut - so the question is whether it should be named "Greenlandic" or "West Greenlandic" - here I think common name suggests Greenlandic is the correct title. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 10:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
  • @Maunus: If that is the case, then "West Greenlandic" should be merged into this article. The problem with using kalaallisut as the topic of this article instead of Greenlandic as a whole is that it could confuse readers. I think the article should be rewritten to be about Greenlandic as a whole instead of just the kalaallisut dialect. – Treetoes023 (talk) 10:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I donøt think it makes sense to have an article about West Greenlandic separate to this one. I also don't think there is much to merge. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• • • Articles about languages (such as German language, French language, English language etc.) normally describe their standard varieties first and foremost, while dialects and comparisons between them are mostly relegated to separate pages. An article about 'Greenlandic as a whole' would have to describe only features common to all varieties of Greenlandic, giving examples from each dialect, and also the dialect variation. Such an article would more properly be called '(Comparison of) Greenlandic dialects'.--Anonymous44 (talk) 11:42, 23 October 2023 (UTC)