Talk:Golden spike

Image

I've uploaded this image of The Golden Spike. The page is somewhat image-heavy at the moment, so when I added another image, it ended up creating large sections of white space. The article needs a bit of tinkering and image organization and I don't have a ton of time to play around with it, so I'm dropping a link here in the hopes that someone else will get a chance to rearrange things around. Neil916 (Talk) 16:36, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

The Golden Spike" was commissioned by David Hewes and is 14.03 ounces of 17.6 Carat solid gold. It is highly polished and engraved on all sides, including the date of May 8, 1869, the date the Golden Spike Ceremony was supposed to be held. The Golden Spike is on display at the Leland Stanford Junior University Museum. The Second Solid Gold Spike was commissioned by the San Francisco Newsletter Newspaper Company. The only engraving on the second Golden Spike was on the head. This spike, along with the fancy Laurelwood Tie in which all four precious metal spikes were placed in pre-drilled holes, was on display at the Newsletter offices in San Francisco. Both the Spike and Tie, along with the entire Newsletter Offices were destroyed in the great San Francisco Earthquake and Fire of 1906. I know these facts from the four years I spent in researching America's First Transcontinental Railroad as an Interpretive Park Ranger at Golden Spike National Historic Site at Promontory Summit, Utah 1988-92. I have personally held The Golden Spike in this image when it "visited" Golden Spike NHS, plus Nevada's solid Silver Spike and Arizona Territory's Iron Spike plated in silver on the shaft and gold on the top, when they were on loan from the Smithsonian to the Union Pacific Museum in Omaha. They are currently in the Smithsonian.

My First-Person Living History program entitled "Hit or Myth," where an Irish Union Pacific Rail Working Angel returns to clarify the Golden Spike Myth-conceptions was featured at the 125th Anniversary of the Golden Spike Ceremony at Promontory Summit in 1994, as well as at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento for RailFair '91 and '99 and a multitude of programs at Historic Societies in Utah, California, and Arizona. "Hit or Myth" will also be at the 150th Golden Spike Anniversary this next week.CrooksvilleIrish (talk) 15:37, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Subject matter

What is this article about? Is it about the golden spike itself, or is it about the ceremony in which the golden spike was driven, thus completing the transcontinental railroad in the US? The article seems to be confused about what it's talking about. Neil916 (Talk) 16:51, 17 March 2010 (UTC).

This article is about the four precious metal spikes and highly polished Laurelwood Tie featured at the Golden Spike Ceremony commemorating completion of America's First Transcontinental Railroad at Promontory Summit, Utah Territory May 10, 1869. Annual reenactments of the Ceremony are presented at Golden Spike National Historic Site at Promontory Summit, Utah. Daily presentations by Interpretive Park Rangers are a highlight of Park visitor's experiences at Golden Spike. There are also hiking and driving opportunities along the restored mile and a half of original size and weight rails, where the Replica "Jupiter" and "119" American Standard 4-4-0 Locomotives are displayed in the Spring and Summer, as well as along remnants of the original Transcontinental Railroad Grade. CrooksvilleIrish (talk) 15:55, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Just a comment- This is about the ceremony that used the four spikes. There is a separate article on the transcontinental railroad construction which culminated in the ceremony, but this is the detailed account of the ceremony. Risk Engineer (talk) 19:14, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Mislabeled photograph

There's a photograph accompanying this article which identifies an engine being carried on a flatcar as Virginia and Truckee Railroad No. 119. However, this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_and_Truckee_Railroad

identifies the engine as No.18, which had been decorated to resemble the historic No. 119 for use in the centennial celebration in 1969. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ormewood (talk • contribs) 19:42, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

This has been fixed (thanks)...Ormewood (talk) 18:31, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Locations/fates of all four spikes.

If someone has information about the locations/fates of the two other spikes (two are in the article) I think it'd be a good addition to the article. ColinClark (talk) 07:36, 5 July 2010 (UTC) Please see above. CrooksvilleIrish (talk) 15:56, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

POP CULTURE

Many articles on Wikipedia have Pop Culture refs in them. People like to know if a subject is talked about, used, or referenced in other places. I am happy to provide reference material but am not sure how to put them in the article. Vsmith, please do not undo this again or I will have to report you for WR3 Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 18:58, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Please see WP:other stuff exists. If you can provide a link to a good reference which explains the significance of the movie to the subject of the article, please do - and I or another editor can check it out and if suitable add to the article. The problem is that a movie about some fictional characters or whatever which uses the spike in some way is rather irrelevant here. If you can provide some sourced relevance, please do. Vsmith (talk) 21:42, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

And this is why Wikipedia sucks. It's pop culture. Period, that is enough to list it in the article. Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 01:29, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

The issue in this instance is not really whether or not motion pictures are "pop culture" (they are), but one of if a single unspecified and unsourced "reference" to the "Golden Spike" in the film "Wild Wild West" is encyclopedically significant as well. Over the past almost century and a half the Spike and the Pacific Railroad have been mentioned or alluded to in literally tens of thousands of motion pictures, books (I have written a couple myself about the subject), articles, plays, illustrations, photographs, paintings, newspaper and magazine stories, academic papers, advertisements, and dozens of other types of published and unpublished works that could also qualify as "pop culture" to one extent or another.

Virtually none of such references, mentions, and/or allusions, however, have any particular encyclopedic significance or help to elucidate the main topic and therefore do not merit inclusion in its Wikipedia entry. Therefore just because something qualifies as "pop culture" is simply not "enough to list it in the article". It must also meet the criteria of being significant, illustrative, and/or capable of helping to educate and/or enlighten the reader about the topic.

For an example of the type of pop culture reference that meets these criteria for inclusion, see the material I have added to the article about the film "Union Pacific" in the entry's revised "Pop Culture" section. Centpacrr (talk) 06:02, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

The list had to start some where. I listed the film "Wild Wild West" because that's what I knew of. Feel free to add to the list from the "tens of thousands" of other references. "Wild Wild West" is a fairly recent reference that most people would remember. But I guess it's better to not list anything so no one will ever know. Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 02:28, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Added my ref to your ref under the pop culture heading. Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 04:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The listing of a fictional reference to the Golden Spike in the Wild Wild West (for one thing U.S. Grant did not attend the ceremony) still lacks any sourcing, citation, or reference, as well as any rationale as to why it is significant to the understanding of the topic over all other references thereto in popular culture -- or at all. Without such it is likely to again be subject to deletion as unencyclopedic and not notable. Centpacrr (talk) 05:37, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Again, this is why Wikipedia sucks. People like you and Vsmith don't allow others to make changes. I linked to the film article. I noted IMDB. Feel free to add ref tags to any of that. There is a scene in the film that nods to the golden spike. Therefore it is relevant. Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 04:16, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

With respect, I just don't see what encyclopedic value or relevance that a "nod" to the Golden Spike in a fictionalized action comedy about a mechanical tarantula that does nothing to otherwise elucidate or educate the readers of the article has about the real historic significance of the Golden Spike. I have, however, added a Pop Culture reference to the TV series Wild Wild West's relationship to the Golden Spike because of the use in that series of the 1875 V&T locomotive "Inyo" that was also used in the 1939 film "Union Pacific" as well as at the 1969 Golden Spike Centennial celebration and, from 1970 to 1979, as the replica for CPRR #60 ("Jupiter") at the Golden Spike National Historic Site. Centpacrr (talk) 06:59, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• Upon further investigation and reflection, I have restored the ref to "Wild Wild West" with additional information. I have also added a reference to the 1924 John Ford film "The Iron Horse". Centpacrr (talk) 13:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Very nice clean up. Sorry to have been a pain, just do not know Wikipedia codes for putting in refs and such. Also I did not know the original show had mention of the spike nore Iron Horse. Thanks for the added information. Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 22:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Not a problem. In order to justify the reference required finding how it is significant and sourcing it which is what I did. It also inspired me to create the new section on the Golden Spike Days Celebration in Omaha in 1939 using materials in my Pacific Railroad collections and added two other "Pop Culture" items. (I've written a couple of books on the overall subject and our family operates a 10,000+ page website that has been on the web since February, 1999, called the "Central Pacific Railroad Photographic History Museum".) Thanks for standing up for your contribution in here which is always the right thing to do. That's what helps the WP project grow. Centpacrr (talk) 03:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

No Problem. Sorry for the "Wikipedia sucks" comments. Just been dealing with this type of issues for many, many years on several articles. :) Crazy Blue Eyes (talk) 19:43, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

LOL, me too. ;=) Centpacrr (talk) 22:40, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

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It's been THAT LONG?! Comments on the 150th Golden Spike Ceremony

Well, it's the last day in April 2019. My name is Monte Crooks and in just 10 days, I return to Promontory Summit, Utah, where my Park Ranger career began back in 1988, just before the 119th Anniversary of the Golden Spike Ceremony. My First Person Living History Alter-Ego, Michael Keeney, comes down to Promontory as an Irish Rail-Working Angel for the Union Pacific Railroad in a presentation entitled "Hit or Myth." Michael's purpose is to clarify the Golden Spiked Mythconceptions, and there's a bunch o' them!

The greatest Myth is that Leland Stanford, using a regular iron spike hammer, DROVE a 17.6 Carat solid-gold spike into a railroad tie at Promontory Point, Utah. FAKE NEWS! Days before the completion of America's First Transcontinental Railroad, newspaper reporters aboard Leland Stanford's Dignitary train en route to Promontory actually wrote their "eyewitness" accounts of the event and telegraphed the fiction to their San Francisco Newsletter Newspaper Company. The limited information used to imagine the scenario was that the reporters knew Stanford had a Golden Spike upon which the date May 8th, 1869 was engraved. Also, the only place predominately marked upon their map of the vicinity of where the Central Pacific and Union Pacific Railroads were to meet was Promontory Point. To the reporter's minds, it was obvious that Stanford would drive the Spike at Promontory Point on May 8th!

In 150 years, the Fake News still prevails. Completion took place at Promontory Summit, thirty-seven miles North of the Point, and nobody tried to do anything but ceremonially "tap" the four precious metal Spikes brought to the Summit. Michael Keeney's job is to replace the fiction with the facts, a domitable task indeed! I will update this talk as the day to leave from Prescott, Arizona to the Celebration arrives, and will fill in my observations of the Sesquicentennial Reverie!

CrooksvilleIrish (talk) 01:14, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Aftermath misnomer

If the most common sense of the term, “aftermath,” is in reference to negative repercussions of a terrible event, I wonder if this section title could be changed to a more fitting name. Many dictionaries probably agree about the negative meaning of the word, that it does refer to the things that follow from an event, but “especially one of a disastrous or unfortunate nature,” as dictionary.com explains it. The material under the Aftermath heading doesn’t say the Last Spike ceremony was a disastrous episode in US history; at worst it just suggests it wasn’t originally as big a deal as it is often thought to have been. So, I would submit that the article would be slightly improved if the heading of that section were changed to something more in keeping with the article’s neutral tone. Maybe, for example, “Significance,” “Subsequent Events,” “Historical Importance,” etc. 24.229.74.212 (talk) 00:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Interesting proposal ... It would match most of the other history articles of a similar nature. Cheers Risk Engineer (talk) 12:54, 22 April 2020 (UTC)