Talk:Goku/Archive 6

Archive 1

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Archive 7

History

What happened to the section that talks about the history of Goku? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.104.215.158 (talk) 04:22, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Goku in Fariy odd parents movie Channel Chasers

Should it noted that some TV show named Maho Mushi (Japanese: 魔法虫 Magic Insect) is a parody of Dragon Ball?04:22, 31 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.163.17.213 (talk)

You need sources to verify this. Even when you take that out of consideration, that fictional show a parody of anime in general. Just how does this affect Goku? This an article about Son Goku not Dragon Ball. Sarujo (talk) 05:04, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

How about in that episode of Chowder(Tofu-Town Showdown"),when Shnitzel turn into this Super Sayain looking person? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.52.242 (talk) 20:17, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Appearances in other media

This section is overlong and needs streamlining. I have noticed that this is a common occurrence within articles of fictional characters and rarely does such a long section benefit said articles. It is not necessary to note every single, minute appearance the character has made; look at Aang, Eric Cartman or Jack Sparrow for example. They all have a section dedicated to the character's appearances in other media yet they are short and to the point. They outline the characters' appearances and note the more important examples rather than devote separate sub-sections for each category that the character has popped up in. The same could be done for Goku. It isn't necessary to discuss in detail every Japanese game show he has been in; rather, the information can be more generalized while keeping the references. I have similar gripes with the 'Personality' section but I won't get into that right now. I'd like to hear from others on this matter, as I do want to improve the article but with such long, trivial "information" it won't be a good article any time soon--GroovySandwich 04:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with your points. I suggests that, instead of listing every single appearance, a summary of all appearances would be better. For example, instead of a having a subsection of special events that list them all, it could be a paragraph that says that Goku has appeared in several TV shows in Japan and adding the references at the end. I would be more in favor of changing Appearances in other media to impact or Cultural impact like Jack Sparrow and Superman, both of which are featured articles. I think that you should edit the section or write a draft of it to show how it would look, but I do not know what other editors might think. Jfgslo (talk) 15:15, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the input. I will make some attempts to clean up the section when I can but large scale trimming is not quite my forte. It will take a bit as I am focusing on other articles at the moment--GroovySandwich 05:16, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Hair terming

Is a fair assessment to refer to his hair as liberty spikes? Seeing as it is referred to as such on that article. Sarujo (talk) 08:19, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

What I wonder if the design section actually talks about Toriyama's comments regarding the design of the character, comments based on what we see or just in-universe information. If not, the in-universe information should be removed from design as it is supposed to be a subsection from the character's creation.Tintor2 (talk) 14:40, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Image.

Okay, so I'll bring this here. The current image is superfluous, and quite frankly confusing to any reader unfamiliar with the series. I know that Goku's got a whole bunch of different forms and that's an important plot point but the fact of the matter is that it makes no sense to an outsider. "Which one is Goku? The blond one? The one in the corner?" I know that it's explained in the text and everything but the image should reflect the character's most recognizable appearance and the current one does not do that. It's a collage of images that confuse the reader with a visual taste sensation.

Other anime character articles, for example, Naruto Uzumaki, Edward Elric, and Himura Kenshin, don't employ such a format. The point is that they use images that depict the character as they most commonly appear. And, as mentioned in the peer review, the presence of other characters in the collage image hurts the article's chances of becoming a GA (as if that's its only problem :p)--GroovySandwich 19:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

If I were somebody who never watched Dragon Ball, I would be confused with who is Goku. There is actually an image like that in the abilities section, so I don't see a need to place one more confusing.Tintor2 (talk) 20:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict)I have read that peer review, and being the who had put in what seems to be the most that this article has to offer, I feel the claim that was made in regards to image was a little contradictory. I mean, if we are already telling folks that he normally has a head full of bedhead liberty spikes, then image is clarified. If the reader is taking a opposite Playboy approach by only looking at the pictures, then they aren't really boning up on the subject, are they? Yet, when I uploaded that calendar litho, I was trying to detour the would be inclusionists who would try to upload image upon image just to have all form represented. That way copyright wouldn't be a problem. Now that I look at that image, I now see Chi Chi and Bardock in the image, is that the confusion of who's who?

However, if the image is really a problem as they claim then it should return to the previous one. There should be a problem with that one. Sarujo (talk) 20:26, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

The description of his hair as liberty spikes doesn't really shows us who he is. if I were an outsider, then I'd still be somewhat confused by that description, as liberty spikes generally look like this and are associated with the punk crowd. An image that actually shows this common depiction is preferred, rather than one that immediately jumps into his alternate appearances without giving the reader a clear idea of what he normally looks like.

But in regards to the image, I suppose the previous image (with both kid and adult Goku) would suffice as it shows his most common incarnation(s)--GroovySandwich 20:35, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Not to get off track, but that's not a generalization of liberty spikes. They can come in various shapes and sizes. Goku's hair can be classified as such. Sarujo (talk) 15:41, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Voice actors

During the requested copy-edit, I've split the 'Voice actors' prose into a list of 'Child' and 'Adult' voice actors for the English-language versions. Is this the most suitable way to present the information? I may further remove text to simplify this section, but if you're happy, so am I. Baffle gab1978 (talk) 03:12, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Surely there could be a better way, but a laundry list should not be that option. Sarujo (talk) 03:43, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

What is the problem with list format? Baffle gab1978 (talk) 07:06, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Laundry list don't come off a professional. Especially in this case when we've already broken down child and adult portrayals. However, it might be wise to not mention so many voice actors as some of the sourcing is invalid. Like for Steven Blum, it only reads Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout credits. That's doesn't work as the English cast was uncredited. Sarujo (talk) 07:40, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Fairy nuff, I'll leave it alone. I'm only copy-editing and I'm not an expert on the series (I've never watched it). I've seen lists elsewhere attract cruft so I understand your POV entirely. Thanks for your input. :-) Baffle gab1978 (talk) 16:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved per clear consensus that Goku is the common name. --rgpk (comment) 16:18, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Son Goku (Dragon Ball) → Goku – This page was moved back by Sarujo who ignored my rationale citing discussions at Character names and the following section which contained evidence Articles with names (essentially RSes). Consensus there was to change Son Goku to Goku as even in Manga: The Complete Guide the author notes he's known as "Son Goku", but then says he will refer to him as the more commonly known "Goku". When a guide devoted to Manga reception uses the anime naming because the anime's name is more well known, given the other results, that should be reason enough.

Also, the discussions do not have to take place on this page and I resent Sajuro saying the discussion NEVER took place when I told him and others where to look in the edit description (the Dragonball character page archive here. I will assume good faith and believe he did not purposefully chose to ignore it because the debate did not occur on this specific page, but there was a discussion about this (and other pages) so I want to make that clear.陣内_Jinnai 16:16, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

• Support per comprehensive nomination. Simply "Goku" is the clear common name. Jenks24 (talk) 03:40, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I did look there, and I couldn't find it, I just took it as it wasn't there. You should have directly linked to it. From the way I see those discussions, there wasn't a clear decisions made, regarding arguing over Viz and Funimation. If there was, we wouldn't be having this conversation now. Yet a lot has happened since those discussions. Primarily, the Japanese terms leaking over Funimation dubs. The name Son Goku is recognize by Funimation with Dragon Box releases, and Namco Bandai game addressing him as such.

I'm opposed to any and all uses of the common name guideline simply for being a flawed golden ticket for people to push fan terms into articles, like this discussion. Also, the fact that person's address of acknowledgement is split 50-50, much like Professor Ochanomizu who has be addressed under three other names. Then there the fact that Son is a surname, so you can't expect everybody real or fake to be calling Son Goku in polite conversation. Sarujo (talk) 06:07, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Per WP:UCN and WP:ENGLISH. This has already been discussed in the past (see here and here) and it was found that Goku is the most commonly used name for the character in English-language reliable sources. I do not see any compelling reason to ignore a Wikipedia policy since reliable sources clearly show that Goku is the common name. Jfgslo (talk) 06:18, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
• Support - Agreed, Goku is the most commonly used name--GroovySandwich^Yum. 06:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
• Support I've done a discussion on this before. If we're going to move Son Goku to Goku, we should also do Son Gohan aswell. Goku is the most common associated. I think you need to look up the policies Sarujo.Bread Ninja (talk) 08:24, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

So we should use terms in polite conversation apposed to official English terminology? Using Son Goku would pass for use English. Sarujo (talk) 09:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Not exactly, because he's not commonly known as "Son Goku" through reliable third party sources in English, we can't use son goku because he's not recognized as such in anyway. Though eve if it was used in the English version some-what. Then it would still move to "goku". The article would just mention that his full name is "Goku Son" or such. It saves time and not add in certain titles such " name 'nickname' surname" format some fans tend to go by.Bread Ninja (talk) 08:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

So when it introduces him, it will say Son Goku? Sarujo (talk) 09:09, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

SOmething like "Goku, known in the manga as Son Goku,..."陣内_Jinnai 15:48, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

• Support In accordance with WP:COMMONNAME, article names should reflect the name most commonly used by reliable English-language sources. When checking up on which name is used by such sources. It becomes very evident that they use "Goku" instead of "Son Goku", even when reviewing the manga.[1][2] —Farix (t | c) 15:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Since the English language reliable sources uses Goku, we should move this to reflect the commonly used name. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:39, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Nesty Calvo Ramirez

Why doesn't Nesty Calvo Ramirez have a page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.51.195 (talk) 22:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

To receive an article, a subject must be proven notable through coverage in reliable third-party sources. If you can prove that that person is notable then by all means be bold and create the article--GroovySandwich^Yum. 02:02, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Well he was in Blue Gender. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.51.195 (talk) 21:34, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Reliable sources in English using "Son Goku"

I did a search for "Son Goku" and "Viz". It bore quite a bit of fruit, and I think the assertion "Son Goku is common in reliable sources" can be supported:

Secondary sources:

• Brooks, Karen. "Brief escape to man in tights." The Courier Mail. Wednesday June 28, 2006. Features p. 30. ISSN 1322-5235. Available on LexisNexis. "Jerry Seinfeld was obsessed with Superman, while the Japanese anime, Dragon Ball Z's, Son Goku is a homage to him."
• Chen, David and Christina Hwang. "What's the Static." Yolk. Informasian Media Group, Inc. Volume 6, Issue 1. June 30, 1999. p. 18. ISSN 10776907. Available on ProQuest. "The comic is almost exactly the same as the television series so don't get this one unless there are a few episodes that you've missed or you need practice with Son Goku drawings."
• Craig, Timothy J. Japan Pop!: Inside the World of Japanese Popular Culture. M.E. Sharpe, 2000. ISBN 0765605619, 9780765605610. Available on Google Books.
  • p. 15 (Introduction): "Figure 1.2 Son Gokū and friends ride the kintoun in Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball."
  • p. 16: "Son Gokū's tail and staff, for instance, tip off Chinese readers that he is a modern version of the Monkey King, the popular magician-warrior of Chinese folklore."
• Daly, Steven and Nathaniel Wice. Alt.culture: an a-z guide to 90s America. Fourth Estate (imprint of HarperCollins), 1995. p. 72. Available on Google Books. "[...]follows the story of Son Goku,[...]"
• De La Cruz, Edwin. "'Dragon Ball Z' Keeps Up the Momentum." Video Store Magazine. November 2-8, 2003. Volume 25, Issue 45. p. 26. ISSN: 1541-1737. Available on EBSCOHost. "The three tell the life story of Son Goku,[...]"
• Frese, David (McClatchy Newspapers). (these are all separate copies of the same review run partially and/or fully in different newspapers)
  • "Dragonball may not be magical for Fox." Houston Chronicle. Thursday April 9, 2009. "D:Efollows Son Goku (Justin Chatwin) on his quest to collect seven magical “dragon balls” and fend off the evil King Piccolo (James Marsters)."
  • "Movies." Houston Chronicle. Section Preview, p. 18. 3 Star R.O. Edition. "D:E follows Son Goku (Justin Chatwin) on his quest to collect seven magical "dragon balls" and fend off the evil King Piccolo (James Marsters)."
  • "Assessing 'Dragonball'." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Friday April 10, 2009 Sooner Edition. Arts & Entertainment p. C2. ISSN 1068-624X. Available on LexisNexis. ", "D:E" follows Son Goku (Justin Chatwin) on his quest to collect seven magical "dragon balls" and fend off the evil King Piccolo (James Marsters)."
  • The Bismarck Tribune. "'Dragonball' crew comes to theaters." Monday April 13, 2009. Life p. 1C. ISSN 0745-1091. Available on LexisNexis. ""Dragonball: Evolution" follows Son Goku (Justin Chatwin) on his quest to collect seven magical "dragon balls" and fend off the evil King Piccolo (James Marsters)."
• Graham, Jefferson. "Syndicators scan Japan for cartoons." USA Today. Monday January 30, 1995 Final Edition. Life p. 3D. ISSN 0734-7456. Available on LexisNexis. "Dragon Ball features a young boy named Son Goku who has incredible powers and is plunged into mystical adventures in exotic lands."
• Gravett, Paul. Manga: 60 Years of Japanese Comics. Laurence King Publishing, August 3, 2004. p. 71. 1856693910, 9781856693912. Available on Google Books. "Left: Now with a wife and son, the adult Son Goku in Dragon Ball Z[...]" (directly referring to scans of the English-language manga by VIZ)
• Honnold, RoseMary. The teen reader's advisor. Neal-Schuman Publishers, 2006. p. 143. ISBN 1555705510, 9781555705510. Limited preview on Google Books. "Main Character: Male, Son Goku." and "Son Goku is a monkey-tailed boy."
• Martin, Theron. "Hunter x Hunter DVD - Set 1." Anime News Network. January 12, 2009. "Nominal central character Gon is an obvious Son Goku derivative:[...]"
• Matsutani, Minoru. "'Manga': heart of pop culture Why are comics so near and dear to the Japanese?." The Japan Times. Tuesday May 26, 2009. ISSN 0289-1956. "[...]a popular comic series featuring the adventures of martial artist Son Goku,[...]"
• Misiroglu, Gina. The Superhero Book. Visible Ink Press, October 1, 2004. p. 190. ISBN 1578591546, 9781578591541. Available on Google Books. "Dragon Ball follows the adventures of Son Goku,[...]"
• RZA. The Tao of Wu. Penguin Books, October 15, 2009. page unspecified by preview. ISBN 1594488851, 9781594488856. Available on Google Books. "Its hero, Son Goku,[...]"
• Smith, David. "Shonen Jump All-Stars For DS." 1UP.com. IGN. October 5, 2004. "[...]and the blond Super Saiyajin version of Dragon Ball Z's Son Goku are to be the focal point of the game,[...]"
• Symonds, Saul. "Stephen Chow tackles Dragon Ball: the movie." South China Morning Post. November 15, 2007. News p. 1. ISSN 1021-6731. Available on LexisNexis. "[...]using the lead character Son Goku's signature "Kamehameha" attack move in his film Flirting Scholar." - It was at http://www.scmp.com/article/615691/stephen-chow-tackles-dragon-ball-movie but the URL doesn't seem to have been archived, and it seems like it's behind a paywall.
• Tanikawa, Miki. "Manga gets a new lease on lifeBoom in mobile versions may prove a 'savior' for the Japanese art form." International Herald Tribune. August 3, 2009. Business News p. 14. ISSN 0294-8052. Available on Gale Cengage Infotrace Learning Hospitality, Tourism & Leisure Collection. "**CAPTION: An image from "Dragon Ball," the adventures of Son Goku, above, published by Shueisha. Languishing on paper, the comics are finding new success on cellphones. Photo Credit: Bird Studio/Shueisha"
• West, Mark I. The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture: From Godzilla to Miyazaki. Scarecrow Press, 2009. p. 202. ISBN 0810851210, 9780810851214. Available on Google Books. "Son Goku, stayed throughout the series, new characters[...]"
• Yang. Jeff. "A FLASH FROM JAPAN." A. Magazine. July 31, 1995. p. 28. ISSN 10709401. Available on ProQuest. "Dragonball is the story of Son Goku, an odd little kid with a terrific flying kick;[...]"
• "Breathing life into 2 dimensions / Toei Animation's Morishita." Yomiuri Shimbun/Daily Yomiuri. June 3, 2011. Available from General OneFile. "Dragon Ball starts off as a heartwarming tale, but as the protagonist, Son Goku, grows up, he becomes involved in numerous fierce battles."
• Look Japan, Volume 49, Issues 565-576. p. 7. Available on Google Books. "The comic is an adventure story where the hero, Son Goku, Buruma[...]"

Primary sources:

• "4Kids Entertainment Signs Dragon Ball Z Kai for U.S. Broadcast Premiere on TheCW4Kids Saturday Morning." Business Wire. April 26, 2010. Available on General OneFile. "[...]it follows the adventures of Son Goku from his childhood through adulthood as he trains in martial arts and explores the world in search of the seven mystical objects[...]"

While this appeared on the Houston Chronicle website it is captioned "IMDB.com" so the paper probably got it from the website.

• IMDB.com. "OPENINGS." Houston Chronicle. Thursday April 9, 2009. Section Preview, p. 21. "The young warrior Son Goku sets out on a quest, racing against time and the vengeful King Piccolo, to collect a set of seven magical orbs that will grant their wielder unlimited power."

Ambiguous:

• Ellis, Bill. "Japanese Popular Culture." in Haase, Donald (editor) The Greenwood Encyclopedia of Folktales and Fairy Tales: G-P. Greenwood Publishing Group, 2008. p. 513. Available on Google Books. ISBN 0313334439, 9780313334436. "Son Goku, originally the trickster moneky of the company, was made into the central figure of the enormously popular manga/anime Dragonball Z (1984- )."
• Yadao, James S. The Rough Guide to Manga. Penguin Books, October 1, 2009. p. 116. ISBN 1405384239, 9781405384230. Available on Google Books. "Before Dragon Ball, Son Goku was best known to Japanese audiences as the hero of Saiyuki,[...]Son Goku formed part of a Buddhist monk's entourage on their journey from China to India in search of sacred schools[...]Similar michevious traits appear in Dragon Ball's Goku,[...]"

Remember that "Son Goku" is a full name, so it may be hard to judge that against "Goku" or even absence of "Son" since it is common to refer to the character as "Goku." So you can ask "well what about the sources that never say the family name 'Son'?" But one will have to judge in what context the name is used.

I can e-mail a user the journal sources if he/she wants them. On another note, if someone wants to write an article on Video Store Magazine, the website of it is is hive4media.com , and that could be used as a source. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

in this case, he's still most commonly known simply as "Goku" not only that but it would mean using disambiguation. And we really don't need that.Lucia Black (talk) 16:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

The problem is that other characters are "commonly known" by just their given names, and yet articles still use the full names, i.e. Yusuke Urameshi is commonly called "Yusuke", Naruto Uzumaki is called "Naruto," and Ichigo Kurosaki is commonly called "Ichigo" - So even if we find that FUNimation has deliberately excluded the family name Son from the English anime, how can we tell if a source is simply using the given name, or if it is consciously excluding the family name or treating "Goku" as the only name? How do you distinguish between the motives of the sources which do not mention the family name "Son"? And why is "Goku" the undisambiguated choice when the Saiyuki character, or the other Gokus around are commonly addressed by only their given name? I know Dragon Ball Z is popular in the west, but does this warrant only having him referred to as Goku? WhisperToMe (talk) 17:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Also on a forum I read that Goku refers himself as "Son Goku" in the dialog of Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit but I do not have a copy of the game, and I am not sure how I can verify this. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Also in one Dragon Ball Kai episode Goku says "I am Son Goku" in a speech to Freiza in the English version. I'm not sure which episode it is, but I found a video clip of that scene WhisperToMe (talk) 17:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

you presented characters that if weren't precise, would need disambiguation. However, Goku in the english speaking world is most commonly known by the main character. TO add "son" on it simply for his full name is understandable, however, its unnecessary precision. This article doesn't have disambiguation, if we were to add "Son" on to it, it would need disambiguation.Lucia Black (talk) 17:19, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I am not sure about the first character mentioned but unlike Goku both Uzmaki and Kurosaki have been used in their respective dubs far more often than Son was for Goku. The average reader is far more likely to have heard the name Naruto Uzmaki or Ichigo Kurosaki than Son Goku.--199.91.207.3 (talk) 17:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

What about "House"? The article is at Gregory House and I am not sure how often the character is called by his full name. Then there is Fry (Futurama) who is Philip J. Fry but the article still introduces him by his full name, even though the article title uses his last name WhisperToMe (talk) 12:14, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I can't speak for the House article but the Fry situation does not help your case very much since the title itself is still at fry and at most that would be an argument to have the lead say Son Goku more commomly known as Goku not a reason change the title. Also looking at the Gregory House article the article was always at that name and there has never been a discussion regarding whether or not to use House on its own so I can't see how that can be used since it does not reflect a consensus that single names (in this case House) can't be used.--174.93.171.10 (talk) 01:50, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I only see this another example of characters with multiple names only being referred by folks by just one of those names in the same manor as a nickname. Everybody's rationale and the book used previous discussion to site one common, Manga: The Complete Guide, comes off too much to me as everybody knows his full name, but are compelled to associate him on a first name basis. My only example that comes to mind is Stewie Griffin. We know his full name as Stewart Gilligan Griffin, yet we're all compelled to call him by his given nickname.

Also keep in mind that Son Goku has been used by Funimation with the domestic Dragon Box Z releases, and by Atari in Dragon Ball: Origins. Yes, I know they are primary sources, but it's still worth putting on the table none the less.

Right now, even though I'd prefer the use full name, I'm willing to compromise the use of the full name in the lead like we do in living people articles. The current article status comes off like Son Goku is a mere nickname. Sarujo (talk) 00:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Son Goku is the character's name. It is used in every form of media that I am aware of that isn't produced by or based on Funimation's English dub. This includes the English release of the manga. Being that Goku is, first and foremost, a MANGA character, shouldn't that have precedence? The anime is an adaptation, and Funimation's dub is an adaptation of an adaptation. And if it can't be moved for the sake of simplicity, then we should at least name him in full in the opening sentence. Son Goku is not some 'alternate name.' It's his full name, and that is not well represented in the current wording. Dalesy617 (talk) 03:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Is Goku super humanly endurable?

DangerousGame has suggested the category:Fictional characters with superhuman durability, I think its a different ability from super human strength. Even as a child Goku takes no damage from being shot with bullets. CensoredScribe (talk) 16:10, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Why is Goku's mother not mentioned in this article?

This article is outdated. See

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/episode-bardock-akira-toriyama-super-qa/

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.92.35 (talk) 03:38, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

She is, look harder; it is in Appearances in other media. I removed your reproduction of copyrighted text by the way. Xfansd (talk) 03:44, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Where? I don't see her in the list of Goku's relatives. Relatives: Bardock (father), Raditz (brother), Chi-Chi (wife), Gohan (son), Goten (son), Pan (granddaughter) 69.203.92.35 (talk) 04:04, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I said where above. She is never going to be listed in the infobox cause she is not from Dragon Ball, but Jaco. Xfansd (talk) 04:41, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

That makes no sense. This article is not about DragonBall, it's about Goku, and the Jaco manga is confirmed to be a prequel to DragonBall by Akira Toriyama himself. Gine is Goku's canon mother, that's a fact. Where she has appeared is irrelevant. She could "appear" only in a Kanzenshuu article and she would still be Goku's canon mother because Akira Toriyama (the author of DragonBall) said so.69.203.92.35 (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

It has since been added and I agree with it. As mentioned this is an article about Goku not Dragonball so the fact that his canonically confirmed mother appeared in a different work is irrelevant.--67.68.22.129 (talk) 03:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Rearraging the article

Am I the only one who thinks this article is a bit deorganized? I mean real world info is really closed to in-universe info. For example, I would suggest making something like this

• Appearances
  • In Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z
  • In Dragon Ball GT
  • In Dragon Ball Super
• Creation
  • Design
• Traits
• Reception and legacy

Any thoughts?Tintor2 (talk) 18:31, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

• cough* @Narutolovehinata5:, @DragonZero:, @Gabriel Yuji:, @ProtoDrake:, @Sjones23: *cough* Sorry.Tintor2 (talk) 01:46, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Honestly I thought the notification was about the discussion on Goku's mother above, but I guess something went wrong with the sectioning. Tintor2, your suggestion is essentially spot-on, as good anime character articles generally follow that format. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:14, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

That layout seems fine to me. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:07, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Also, I kind of want to trim the transformations and mixing them with the appearances sections to avoid WP:fancruft.Tintor2 (talk) 15:06, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Looks fine, but how about arranging the appearances based on canon stories, then non cannon like GT and other appearances. I think you should combine design and traits under some common section like characterization. I didn't look at the current article, so I don't know how the final result will look though. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 21:15, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Currently working here. Feel free to edit the sandbox if you think somethings need to be reworded.Tintor2 (talk) 23:19, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Update Already rewritten.Tintor2 (talk) 15:45, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

I think I'm stuck with voice actors. I can't find a single source about them. I would use Behindthevoiceactors but it appears it's just a fansite.Tintor2 (talk) 02:21, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

It's more than a fan site. Behind The Voice Actors is usable to confirm credits (with green checkmarks to screen captures of closing credits or official cast announcements) and for their BTVA awards WP:ANIME/RS. That's about it. Side-by-sides and other information isn't reliable. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:38, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the message @AngusWOOF:, do you think this and this could be used in the article?Tintor2 (talk) 22:18, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Only the green checkmarks can be used in those side-by-sides. That's my point. So it is not useful to verify all voice actors. On the flip side, the voice actors who have voiced Goku are well known and you can look at anime convention writeups and reviews, especially for Sean Schemmel, Colleen Clinkenbeard, and Masako Nozawa. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 22:25, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Super hero vs. fictional character

There is currently a disagreement between two users in regards to whether the article's lead character should introduce him as a superhero or as a fictional character. Please discuss this in the talk page to avoid edit wars. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 01:39, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Goku is categorized by wikipedia to be a superhero, just like Superman is. Superman's opening line on wikipedia is that he is a superhero, so it is fitting that Goku gets the same. Once I made this edited, someone took Goku out of the superhero categories without giving a reason. So I reverted it. Osh33m (talk) 02:25, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Its not between just two users, only Osh33m thinks it should call him a superhero, several of us (users and IPs) have removed it throughout the past several months that he's added it. Goku's simply not a superhero by its very definition, he's not "dedicated to a moral goal or protecting the public." All of his fights (except maybe one) are for personal reasons, we could go through them if someone wants. If you check the edit history you'll see a user remove it in November and link to a fansite that translates a magazine interview with the creator saying almost exactly that. What more needs to be said? Xfansd (talk) 02:32, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Here's what's more to be said: I was not the one who added Goku to wikipedia's category of extraterrestrial superheroes. He has been listed there for God knows how many years here. And Superman literally falls under the same category. Therefore, I see it fitting to have Goku's opening statement start with "superhero", just like Superman's. Some people took issue with this, and all of a sudden, decided to remove Goku from the extraterrestrial superhero category, without a reason. Osh33m (talk) 12:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

This is rather simple - do a majority of the sources refer to Goku as a superhero? If so, then use it as the primary identifier. If not, just use "fictional character" and call him a superhero lateron in the lead/article. I doubt that "superhero" is the main thing people call him, especially in Japanese-language sources, but I can be wrong. I'd personally refer to Goku as a "shonen hero", like characters such as Ichigo and Luffy, though that would just be original research... I wonder if "superhero" is original research too. ~Mable (chat) 21:56, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

"Fictional character" is a description, "superhero" is an analyst and, per WP:PSTS, will require third-party sources. And I would even go so far to say that Superman should be described as a "fictional character" in the lead sentence instead of a "superhero", even if Superman is the archetype for superhero characters. I will also add that nowhere in the article does it describe the character as a superhero. Per MOS:LEAD, the lead section is suppose to summaries the continence of the article. If there is no mention of him being a superhero elsewhere in the article—with backing from multiple reliable sources—it would be entirely inappropriate to mention it in the lead section. —Farix (t | c) 22:01, 22 March 2016 (UTC) Expanded 22:25, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

Here are a few sources that might be able to be used:

• Superman Vs. Goku: Different Cultural Values Represented in Superhero Characters in American and Japanese Comics by Daisuke Matsuura, University of Wyoming
• Folktales and Fairy Tales: Traditions and Texts from around the World by Donald Haase Ph.D., Anne E. Duggan Ph.D.
• Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces (paragraph beginning "After episode 133...") by Brian Camp and Julie Davis
• The Supervillain Book (quote is "Toriyama added a strong dose of science fiction and superhero action...") by Gina Renée Misiroglu and Michael Eury

There are others, but that's a good start. I see no issue calling Goku a superhero, though Farix is correct that the lead needs to contain only information found elsewhere in the article. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

This classification will depend on which criteria you are using to define a superhero. Goku has several traits that can be identify with a typical superhero ( his superpowers, and his origin story and maybe some of his motivations and values, he actually cares about humankind and fights for earth when necessary) but in the other hand he lacks other things that helps to classify him and the other Z Warriors superheroes (he hasn't an secret identity as most superheroes have, his primary motivations aren't necesarily justice, his primary goal is to become the greatest fighter of the universe), for me he and the other Z warriors from Dragon Ball are unconventional superheroes , even when their primary goal isn't justice for humankind they actually care about humans and help them to defeat threats to planet earth. I find this classification problematic since Goku and many other Anime and Manga characters from different series are in the gray zone, they have several traits that identify them as a superhero, but others that push them out of that classification. Goku is certainly a kind of hero but, is he a superhero? --189.147.198.125 (talk) 08:07, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

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