Talk:Gimli (Middle-earth)/Archive 1

Untitled

Perhaps it should be stressed that the "some" of "some say that he traveled [...]" is an internal and not an external one, i.e. it is not that different readers or scholars have different opinions on this (which they may well have, though, but then it's rather a question of belief than anything else), but that the canonical texts (notably, a quote from the Red Book of Westmarch) state it as an in-world rumour. I don't think JRRT ever dealt with this matter more decisiveley than that. --Jao 03:10, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The no-one tosses a dwarf thing came from The Two Towers, didn't it? --Timo 00:27, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)

From the FotR movie. The TTT movie has another dwarf-tossing scene which refers back to it. "Alright toss me, but don't tell the Elf" I believe. — Jor (Darkelf) 00:30, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Gimli in the movie

In Peter Jackson's movie adaptation Gimli is mainly used as the comic relief. In the first movie, FoTR, when the party run through the mines of Moria and are chased by the Balrog there is a scene where they climb down a broken collumn of stairs which lead to a bridge over a very deep abyse. The collumn of stairs is cracking and Gimli hastitates to jump, when he realized they gonna throw him to the other side he yells "Nobody tosses a dwarf" and jumps to the other side, only to be caught in the beard by Legolas which saves his from falling. On TTT (The Two Towers) { :-) } there is a scene that Gimly and Aragorn sneak outside Helm's Deep gate in order to prevent the Orcs storm the gate, when Gimli sees he is unable to make the jump he asked from Aragorn. "Toss me" and explains he can't jump that far - and just before Aragorn tosses him Gimli asks "Don't tell the elf (Legolas)." MathKnight 15:57, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Gimli's death in Moria

With respect to the final sentence of the article, I think Christopher Tolkien may have misinterpreted one of his father's notes when he says that his father thought of having Gimli die in Moria. The passage in question (in The Return of the Shadow or The Treason of Isengard -- probably the latter) reads something like, "Gimli? son of Gloin -- who died in Moria". That sounds to me more like Tolkien was considering having Gloin die in Moria, not Gimli. (Maybe the Fellowship would have found Gloin's tomb rather than Balin's?) Gildir, 13 January 2006

Well, I'm sure you can interpret Tolkien's intent better than his son and literary executor. Thank goodness we have you and wikipedia to set us straight! 219.101.196.9 (talk) 23:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)Tagalog

John Rhys-Davies

From the article:

...Gimli is played by John Rhys-Davies, who was deliberately chosen because he was taller than the actors playing the Hobbits...

This may sound nit-picky, but could someone perhaps find a reference for this? While the relative sizes of Tolkien's characters probably posed an area of concern in the production stages of Jackson's film adaptations, I find it hard to believe that John Rhys-Davies was cast as Gimli simply because he is six inches taller than Elijah Wood. Surely this man's notable theater and film talents contributed to his being cast. --buck 21:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I think I remember reading something to this affect, but I can't remember where. I'll try to find a source. Either way maybe it should be written, because it makes it sound like his height automaticly made him selected as Gimli. Which for obvious reasons probably isn't true. Ted87 23:12, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I've edited it because it sounded fairly insulting, or at least could be interpreted that way. I watched the DVD commentaries of FotR recently (a week ago) and don't recall this being mentioned as a reason for hiring him. It's commented on a number of times, but more as a happy coincidence. If anything swung the casting decision other than his superb acting skills, I suspect it was his voice (though that's just a guess). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.35.15 (talk • contribs)

Picture

Shouldn't there be a picture? -$@ur@BH-- 12:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

There are three, under "Adaptations". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 08:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

This should be Gimli (Middle-earth)

This title is not proper. I will move this article to Gimli (Middle-earth). Madhava 1947 (talk) 07:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Can we stop renaming this article please. Thu 12:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The way to stop move back over redirects is to edit the redirect so only admins can perform the move following a discussion. Now we have to go through a discussion process. Anyone want to: (a) find the previous discussion where it was decided that 'son of Gloin' was the right format; and (b) request a move back at WP:RM? I don't think anyone can perform the move back again, but I might be wrong. I know these moves back-and-forth can get quite messy, so I'm not touching this without further discussion. Carcharoth 12:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment on humility

From the "notes" section: "An interesting historical note is that, according to "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn" in Unfinished Tales, this same request was made, thousands of years previously, by Galadriel's uncle Fëanor, greatest of the Noldorin Elves (whose creation of the Silmarils may have been inspired by that same silver-gold hair). Galadriel refused Fëanor's request, but she granted Gimli's, perhaps because of his humility"

Perhaps instead, it was from a new-found humility on the part of Galadriel.

Gimli's Accent

What is it based off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.178.183 (talk) 19:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

If you're looking at the movies, I'd say Warhammer, with perhaps a bit of R.A. Salvatore's stuff tossed in. In many of the Drizzt books, Salvatore's dwarves sound downright Irish or Scottish. That also crops up in Warhammer fiction.Intothatdarkness (talk) 17:09, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gimli With Axe.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

About the movie.

Could Gimli's image in the movie be based upon the DnD dwarves? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omeganian (talk • contribs) 11:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Peter Jackson plays Warhammer, so it's much more likely that the interaction he shows between Legolas and Gimli is based on that setting. In fact, Gimli does look a bit like some of the Warhammer models used for Dwarfs (their spelling, not JRRT's). The catchline "Never trust an Elf" is straight from that game as well. D&D dwarves were based on JRRT's writing for the most part, but Warhammer has a slightly different take and feel.Intothatdarkness (talk) 22:17, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Recent Edit

I would like to see some opinions, thoughts on this edit ? [1] Mlpearc powwow 01:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm...I think the beginning is fine because it represents the reviews of others, not the writer, althogh we may want to mention the names of the critics. The last part is very OR, though, so unless we find source in commentary, etc., I suppose it could stay out for now. Glimmer721 ^talk 14:58, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus to move. bd2412 T 15:52, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

---

• Gimli (Middle-earth) → Gimli
• Gimli → Gimli (disambiguation)

– I believe this prominent character from one of the most influential literary works of the 20th century is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over a small Canadian municipality. This page received 22,388 views last month, compared to 2377 for Gimli, Manitoba and 64 for Gimli (electoral district). While Gimli Glider had a more impressive 15,522 views, it's essentially a partial title match. Would the plane be referred to solely as "Gimli"? Doesn't seem like it. Therefore, a reader typing in "Gimli" probably expects to see an article about the character. Let's improve the reader experience accordingly. --BDD (talk) 23:31, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Gimli should be a disambiguation page.Skookum1 (talk) 05:26, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

  User:Skookum1 - Why should it be a disambiguation page? At the moment this vote is effectively given without an accompanying reason, since it simply states the status quo.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

• Strong oppose Gimli should point to Gimli, Manitoba, since it is historically notable for the Gimli Glider incident, and is therefore the more encyclopedic topic. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
  • comment all uses of Gimli do not derive from Tolkien's character, whose name also derives from the same source; a particular verse in the Elder Edda listing dwarves, though the name Gimle occurs there also for the name of the southern paradise, though that may be a declension of "Gimli" I'm not sure. Tolkien himself would not support this move IMO but insist on the disambiguation.Skookum1 (talk) 07:11, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Since notability is not inherited, that sounds like more of an argument for redirecting to Gimli Glider. But again, is that ever referred to solely as "Gimli"? --BDD (talk) 15:04, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. There's no clear primary topic here (great though Tolkien was, this is not one of his names that has overwritten all other associations in the public mind), so Gimli should continue to be a DAB page with the others (except for Gimlé, rightly added as a See also) having a disambiguator in their titles, as at present. Yngvadottir (talk) 13:02, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose – Though Gimli is famous, I don't think he's the primary topic for Gimli. --Article editor (talk) 23:50, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
• Support. There's really no policy argument justifying the current arrangement. Of the uses that are actually called "Gimli", the Tolkien character is easily the most common by all evidence. Gimli Glider is a partial title match at best; it probably shouldn't even be on the dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:15, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
• Support, but Gimli Glider should absolutely still be on the disambiguation page. Red Slash 03:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: Agree regarding the Gimli Glider. No change of vote (below). Andrewa (talk) 23:21, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment There should be a Gimli (disambiguation) page, and every instance of the name ought to include a specific. i.e. Gimli (Middle Earth), Gimli, Manitoba, etc. --Svartalf (talk) 14:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

  What you're describing there sounds like the status quo. Except that you appear to be suggesting the disambig page should be at Gimli (disambiguation). Per WP:DABNAME that would be incorrect - when there is no primary topic, the disputed title itself, i.e. Gimli, hosts the disambig page. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 15:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

I prefer disambig pages to be clearly designated as such, even in the absence of a core page of the name, and we're not going to get a consensus as to what Gimli ought to be THE Gimli. --Svartalf (talk) 05:56, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

What you prefer is irrelevant in this discussion. Take it up at MOS:DAB if you're unhappy the rules on disambiguation pages. GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 15:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support Per WP:COMMONNAME and the fact that the other Gimli's can all be disambiguated with a natural name. GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 15:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. While the Middle-Earth character certainly has a strong cult following, in the general readership he would be unknown. Even a small town with no other claim to fame would displace him from being the primary meaning. In this case, with Gimli the town having some notoriety in another context, it's clearly a case for the DAB being at the undisambiguated name. Andrewa (talk) 23:17, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Comment a small town who's article gets 10% of the equivalent reads? I think your understanding of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is a little off GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 05:56, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Reply: And I might have some unflattering opinions of your understanding too, or I may not, but that's not even remotely relevant here. And you might like to read apostrophe#General principles for the possessive apostrophe. No change of vote. Andrewa (talk) 06:33, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Reply It is very, very relevant. Take the locality Abram, Greater Manchester, that is called Abram but is trumped as not as notable as redirecting Abram to Abraham. Little towns that people have generally never heard of do not get priority. GimliDotNet ^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 07:46, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

(Uncertain of the correct stringing here, I think that last comment [2] is one level too shallow so I'll go two levels deeper not one) What is irrelevant is your opinion of my understanding... but I may have strayed into personal attack there too myself, apologies if so. Abram is a poor example, as he's many degrees more famous than Gimli (Middle-earth), so the fact that he's preferred doesn't mean that Gimli the character should be preferred too. And interestingly, Gimli (electoral district) is about the same size as Abram, Greater Manchester, which confirms the poor comparison. Can you provide a better example? If not then I think that particular argument fails. Andrewa (talk) 21:51, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Family Tree Diagram

It seems that Gimili should be Glóin son. The diagram has shown that incorrectly. Ylowtantan (talk) 07:44, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

That indeed seems correct. I'll try to fix that. Mr Grifo (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

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Grocers's Apostrophy?

Is

Legolas's father, had once incarcerated Glóin

correct. Or should it be

Legolas' father, had once incarcerated Glóin

. Can someone with a better grasp of the nuances of apostrophes verify? GimliDotNet (talk) 19:42, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

You will see both, since people blindly apply the rule that plural words (ending in s) apply just the apostrophe. But Legolas is not plural, so Legolas's is generally preferred. See MOS:POSS -- Elphion (talk) 22:47, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Gimli's accent source

"In Peter Jackson's film trilogy (2001–2003) Gimli is played by John Rhys-Davies, who portrayed the character as having a Welsh accent"

This is incorrect. John Rhys-Davies adopted a Scottish accent for the role, albeit an inconsistent one with his native accent coming through at times. The source given also erronously states that two other characters in The Hobbit films have Welsh accents based on this, which is also definitley not correct as both actors adopted strong Scottish accents for their roles. I understand the source is an official companion book for the Hobbit series, but it is definitely incorrect. Razanur Tûk (talk) 18:23, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Agreed! It was clearly a Scottish accent. The citation must be incorrect. Scyrene (talk) 15:47, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

No profile pic?

Shouldn't we have a profile pic? Either animated Gimli or Live action, or even a drawing? Just a thought IDK much about copyright and wiki guidelines for profile article pics.EliteArcher88 (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

You have correctly guessed that copyright applies, so we can't use any film image or book illustration unless one has been released with a Creative Commons license. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:46, 1 May 2020 (UTC)