Talk:Gary Numan

Article Picture

Why is the main picture for this article so old? It is from 1980. While this is an image of him at the height of his mainstream popularity, every other article on a famous individual I can find tends to opt for a more recent picture that is more representative of what they look like today. If there is no good reason and a modern picture would be better, I can try to find one that would be free to use. 74.196.155.140 (talk) 04:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Simple Question (lyrics)

My favourite song is "Are friends electric?". I have a question concerning the lyrics:

So now I'm alone

Now I can think for myself

About little deals

And S.U's

And things that I just don't understand

What sort of "SU" is meant? -- Simplicius 10:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Not that this is really the appropriate forum for such a discussion but if you check out the "Are 'Friends' Electric?" page, you'll find the answer to your question... Cheers, Ian Rose 11:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not realize that songs have their own articles.

I found the answer. Thank you very much indeed! -- Simplicius 13:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Wait, isn't "S.U.s" the British way of pronouncing "issues"? And FWIW, I went to the main page of that article, and it doesn't explain it at all. 216.99.219.219 (talk) 09:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Plane crash

It was a long time ago, mid-80s if I remember, but I'm suprised the article doesn't make any mention of the light aircraft crash that Gary was involved in. I don't think he was the pilot but it certainly made the national news at the time it happened. Anyone have further details? Mighty Antar (talk) 09:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it's significant enough to be mentioned, alongside several other flying incidents. For a long time there was nothing mentioned about his aviation career at all; at least that's been fixed. I keep meaning to update it with information from his autobiography, but never get around to it. Captain Sumo (talk) 08:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Dates

"In late 2006, Numan announced on his website that recording would begin on his new album in January 2007, with Ade Fenton co-producing. Numan stated "think of Jagged and Pure, but faster, with bigger choruses, more energy, and more aggression" to describe the album's intended sound. The album, Jagged, was duly released on 13 March 2006."

Seems unlikely - anybody have the correct dates? --GenericBob (talk) 11:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

This is still an issue. Although an edit has been made the date discrepancy remains.THX1136 (talk) 15:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Decided not to wait after confirming the release date for the album. Applied a logical solution to the discrepancy. Thus these sentences - "In late 2006, Numan announced on his website that recording would begin on his new album in January 2007, with Ade Fenton co-producing. The album, Jagged, was duly released on 13 March 2006." - have been changed to - "In late 2005, Numan announced on his website that recording would begin on his new album in January 2006, with Ade Fenton co-producing. The album, Jagged, was duly released on 13 March 2006." As noted in my edit comments if this is in error, feel free to revert.THX1136 (talk) 15:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

BLP Sources/Citations Needed?

I removed the {{BLP Sources}} template at the top of the page and I see that it was reverted by GorgeCustersSabreGeorge Custer's Sabre. The article currently contains 28 references, so I believed that this template no longer applies.

I propose that any unreferenced statements actually be removed (if they already have a {{Citation needed}} tag) or, if there are new unsourced statements, add {{Citation needed}} tags to them and watch the page to see if other editors comes along to add citations. Otherwise, the statement should also be removed. Unsourced information should not remain in the article and there's no reason that the article can not be brought up to a standard that does not require the {{BLP Sources}} tag at the top.

Comments are welcome. MrX 13:47, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Dear MrX, I hope you are well. For the sake of clarity, I have added citation needed tags where in good faith I believe the statements cannot be considered "common knowledge". They need to be referenced. When time permits, I will assist in working through these, removing each tag when I have found a source. I respectfully suggest that, if all editors interested in this page do the same, it won't take long until this article is a paradigm of thorough referencing. Best wishes to you. Yours sincerely, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 14:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Dear MrX, further to my last comment, might I please respectfully ask other editors if I am wrong in saying that the following statements, and several others, either reflect various Wikipedia editors’ points of view or are reliably evident factual statements revealed in books, magazines, newspapers, etc? If the former, shouldn’t they be removed? If the latter, shouldn’t they be verified by reliable sources?

My examples:

“Numan's fascination with dystopian science fiction”

“one of Numan's most highly-regarded efforts to date”

“the tour actually lost him a great deal of money because of the vast expense in mounting it”

“the bleak, atmospheric and experimental”

“this latest image change was scorned by the music press”

“he experienced a creative malaise”

Best wishes, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 14:37, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I have no prob whether the tag at the top is there or not, but certainly more references are needed. Every so often I promise to do it (see further above!) but always seem to get sidetracked by another of my military history articles. Lately I've been tempted to just rewrite and fully cite it from scratch, I'd just need to collect a couple of references I don't presently have, and set aside the time. As to the particular statements from the article immediately above, they're probably all more-or-less true, but still need citations to reliable sources, as any such assertions do in WP. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments George Custer's Sabre and Ian Rose. I agree with everything said and will do what I can to assist in finding reliable sources or deleting unverifiable material.

I would like to suggest a slight adjustment to the article structure as well. The first major section is Biography, but in fact, the entire article is a biography. I recommend that we remove that section header and promote the 2nd and 3rd level headers below it. This seems to be more in alignment with how other Wikipedia biographies are structured. Cheers, MrX 16:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Dear MrX, I think your outlined idea of a slight structural change is very sensible and, as you say, it's in keeping with how most other Wikipedia biographies are structured. Best wishes,George Custer's Sabre (talk) 16:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that works, MrX. I've also brought the article's Wikiproject Biography assessment back to C (which may still be too generous) -- there are way too many unsourced statements for a B-Class bio. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree Ian Rose. I was surprised to see that the article already had a B-Class quality rating. We should be able to get it back to that rating with a little more effort. Best, MrX 23:29, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-relevant material

I removed the following from the Personal Life section of the article, since it has nothing to do with Numan's personal life, and is merely a trivia/pop culture reference:

Numan is referenced several times in the BBC TV series The Mighty Boosh as Vince Noir, one of the main characters, is a huge Gary Numan fan. Examples of this are in the episode "Tundra" where Numan gives Noir a lift to the Antarctic in his personal jet (a black jet with a red trim with "NUMAN" written in white), in the episode "Electro" Numan's influence is clear to see on Noir when he joins electro band "Kraftwork Orange". Along with making several other references to Numan (notably a scene where Noir states he's made some 'tapes' for a journey saying "This is the best of the 60s (holding one tape), this is the best of the 70s (holding another tape) and THIS (picks up a horde of tapes) is Gary Numan!"), Numan guest-starred in "The Power of the Crimp", being locked in a cupboard and is used (unsuccessfully) to cheer Vince up.

It was also unsourced. MrX 23:26, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I noted the attempt at garnering "good article" status, and wish to assist, but naturally don't want to do so without consensus - I think another reference to Gary wanting to make music with Trent Reznor (under 2009-present) should also be considered non-relevant at this stage and deleted. This may assist with compliance with the "a number of news announcements about future events" requirement, but also think all the statement about him starting to write lyrics for splinter etc need to be replaced by statements about what actually DID happen, past tense. This whole section under 2009+ is very "bitty" if you know what I mean. I intend to do a (suggested) rewrite of this section but not publish it, instead placing it for evaluation somewhere for consentual review. I'm casting about for a similar "good" article to base my rewrite, looking at the Pink Floyd article presently, which granted is a bit longer and has overall different structure. Any suggestions gratefully accepted, thanks. LittleFuzzyYeeks (talk) 05:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

If you're looking for inspiration, check out the Gary Moore biography which was listed GA in 2020, and Harry Styles which was promoted to GA in 2021. I emphasize recent nominations because the articles can change quite a lot after nomination.

You should also be reading Numan's recent book: (R)evolution: The Autobiography, his 1998 Praying to the Aliens: An Autobiography, and any other book about Numan that you can find. Try searching WorldCat for books. One suggestion is Paul Sutton's Understanding Gary Numan: The Machine Quartet (1978-1981) published in 2017. A "good" article is one that summarizes a wide range of sources for the reader. Binksternet (talk) 06:20, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Excellent articles, thanks and appreciate your help - I have both autobiographies, will try to aquire other sources also. LittleFuzzyYeeks (talk) 08:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Influence by John Foxx Ultravox

here is a video showing Numan Talking about Ultravox and their influence on him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QJbmUbCh18

Can someone put this reference in where it belongs? Thanks

TJ (talk) 19:00, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

having looked at the video once more I think that there is good cause to amend the text to read "Numan has cited John Foxx Ultravox as his primary source of inspration as well as Bowie (citation Needed) and Bolan (citation needed."

I have been a Numan fan for many years and have to confess that whilst I have heard him refer to John Foxx Ultravox often I have not heard him attribute any musical influence to either Bowie or Bolan. It was very fashionable for music journalists in that era to attribute influence to those two as they were part of the "Canon", which Ultravox never have been. Perhaps that is where it comes from. It isn't what the man himself says, though, as the video makes clear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QJbmUbCh18

TJ (talk) 19:39, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

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Asperger syndrome

There is (or at one point was) a curious outbreak of male public figures and semi-public figures telling the press that they have Asperger syndrome because they took one of Simon Baron-Cohen's questionnaires at the prompting of their wives. Bram Cohen is one; Vernon L. Smith is another. Gary Numan's story is, by his own admission, the same. He didn't wait for any medical professional to tell him he had the syndrome, he just made up his own mind and started talking about it. He can believe what he wants, but it's not a basis for categorization, because the term "diagnosis" itself invokes the involvement of a medical expert. 50.185.134.48 (talk) 08:03, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

The Independent states: “Numan was diagnosed with Asperger's in 2001, 15 years after releasing the top 10 hit "Cars". "For years, I couldn't understand why people thought I was arrogant, but now it all makes a bit more sense," he said.” It is not up to you (or me) to decide whether the diagnosis is inaccurate or not. He says he has it. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 14:23, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

It is up to me when editing this page to verify the categories in view of available information. If you choose not to do that, then too bad. I am willing to accept ipse dixit statements in the press where no further detail is available. In this case there is, so I do not accept it. AS is defined by medical experts and it is diagnosed by medical experts, not musicians. Please remove the category. 50.185.134.48 (talk) 16:27, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Nope. Numan says that he has Aspeger's and neutral, third-party newspapers have reported this. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 04:08, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I've raised this question at WikiProject Psychology, which is a parent of WikiProject Autism. 50.185.134.48 (talk) 00:23, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

MrX, you insist on a standard that would make it practically impossible to remove any self-diagnosers from the associated list and categories, or those of the next born-genius/born-criminal diagnosis that might come along. According to you, if someone claims a self-diagnosis and that gets passed on in even one instance as "a diagnosis," suddenly it counts for as much as the opinion of a medical expert. You'd elevate personal fantasy to medical conclusion. 50.185.134.48 (talk) 04:04, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

This issue is that Numan is "self-diagnosed," according to the statements he has made and there is no evidence that he has an official diagnosis. Nobody disputes that he says he thinks he has AS, but he is not qualified to diagnose himself; he is a musician, not a psychologist.2602:30A:2ED1:2EE0:1D21:7F34:13D3:4F7B (talk) 01:13, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Within the ContactMusic.com source titled "Numan Convinced He Has Asperger's", the source states unequivocally that Numan "has not officially been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome". In the second and only other source by the Independent titled "Asperger's syndrome: The ballad of Nikki Bacharach", the source also states that "Numan claimed that his difficulty in social situations had led him to believe he had AS". Neither of these sources show evidence that Numan has ever been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome or any other developmental disorder. It appears, instead, that he self-identifies as having Asperger Syndrome. Wikipedia.org doesn't accept self-identification statements as reliable facts. WP editors shouldn't continue to categorize Numan as having Asperger Syndrome.2001:558:6008:3B:39D3:6322:7F0B:D324 (talk) 12:46, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

On April 4, 2016, Variety magazine reported that the subject had "various mood and behavioral problems related to the Asperger syndrome he wasn't diagnosed with until fairly late." This appears to confirm that the subject has recently been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. As such I have added an additional reference, citation and source link to the relevant section, and categorized the article accordingly.2001:558:6008:3B:5C60:C1D3:EE33:1BCD (talk) 15:31, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

References

Keep in mind that many people who self-diagnose something later get this confirmed with a proper diagnosis. If sources report that Numan "was diagnosed with" something, that implies a proper diagnosis, so more editorial investigation of sourcing would be in order. It's unlikely the paper would report a questionable self-diagnosis as "was diagnosed" (you wouldn't say that "I was fed a cheeseburger" if I cooked it myself), so there is probably an additional source out there about an actual diagnosis that the paper is relying on. The dates of the sources (that newspaper and the ContactMusic piece) may also matter.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Gary Numan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

clean up discography section (are there appropriate infoboxes?) and add more inline citations. otherwise very good, with considerable textual content --Sapphic 22:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 22:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 15:50, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Career as Pilot?

It seems like an amazing oversight that his 15 year career as a stunt pilot isn't mentioned at all.

Here's an external link where he references it: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jul/29/gary-numan-musician 2601:602:9A00:1D4B:C9D2:5F4B:FCF7:EFD2 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:22, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. This was part of the article but seems to have been removed. He performed regular airshows in the 80's, and was a qualified trainer. He discusses it extensively in his autobiography. --Captain Sumo (talk) 09:20, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

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Aspergers

"A child psychologist diagnosed me with Asperger’s, I must have been about 14" - from the guardian interview - this article, and that quote, cannot both be true...

That has now been added. Although yes, it does seem somewhat contradictory. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:31, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Considering Asperger's wasn't a common diagnosis until well into the 1980s, it's possibly dubious. -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 08:39, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Mr Numan's claim is rather doubtful - psychologists are nearly always adults. Dark Clouds of Joy (talk) 23:40, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Gang of Four

It mentions that Gary Numan was supported by the Gang of Four, the Chinese radical communists who opposed Deng Xiaoping. I highly doubt this to be true and considering the The Gang of Four were put on trial in 1981 and were imprisoned for life, this is most certainly impossible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:6E2E:9000:5506:FF7C:F4CF:3CDF (talk) 16:09, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four_(band). Though this is probably a troll comment as it's so obvious. 101.176.79.226 (talk) 06:44, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Random (album)

The 1997 tribute album "Random, Vol. 1: A Gary Numan Tribute" played a big role in Numan's career revival, containing contributions from numerous noteworthy artists. But so far there is no article on it, such as Random (album) -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 11:20, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Not Random (02) (1998) then? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:28, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

No. As that article begins, "Random (02) is a remix album by Gary Numan, released in 1998 on Beggars Banquet records as a companion album to the Random covers album of the preceding year." The second Random is a different, far less important album than the first. -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 10:37, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

OK. What's your source for the Random Vol 1 album? And the claim that it "played a big role in Numan's career revival"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:41, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Here's the Guardian: "It (Numan's career revival) began with Random": [1] - and here's the Allmusic review [2]. -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 11:06, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Looks reasonable. Why not go ahead and add? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

OK, I've created a stub for it with the above links. Surprised by how much 1997-era coverage isn't online, but other sources to improve it could include Numan's biography. -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 09:54, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Android in La La Land

I have created a very short Android in La La Land page but was wondering why it isn't mentioned here. I can add but not sure why it was never here in the first place as a relevant piece of material about Numan. --BustOut (talk) 13:27, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Intruder

Still no sign of an article for Intruder_(Gary_Numan_album) even with the album expected to hit the charts any minute now. I started the most basic stub a couple of days ago, but it was swiftly reverted for being unsourced. Would someone with a bit more time like to have a go? -ProhibitOnions ^(T) 08:36, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Better picture

Can we have a better picture than the one that is pretty much a selfie for the main article? 129.67.123.22 (talk) 12:00, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

I was going to start a new section but I found this was here, so I'll use it. SomeWhatLife uploaded the selfie—a still from a YouTube by Numan—to Commons and put it here and on the discography article. This was reverted at this article at least once, by Ian Rose on 7 September. But Ian Rose's replacement was the green image, File:Garynuman2011.jpg, which I think is unnecessarily weird for a top image. I was alerted to this article by a site one is not supposed to name on Wikipedia, which has a thread on "unflattering portraits", and found Commons was using in their infobox a headshot cropped from another 2011 performance, File:Gary Numan.jpg, which I thought was the best choice: it represents him at the peak of his fame, it's not out of focus or weirdly lit, and we usually use a head and shoulders view as the top image for a person. I also reduced the size of the portrait-mode images in the article and shortened a caption. (And I've nominated the YouTube photo and another of a different person that SomeWhatLife also screen-grabbed from YouTube for deletion on Commons, since neither has evidence of permission.) SomeWhatLife reverted me today in this edit, without an edit summary and marked as a minor edit, except that they restored the green performance photo rather than the blurry photo in his car. I've just reverted back with an explanatory edit summary, so the images need discussion, especially the lead/infobox image. I'll bow to consensus if the green image—or the selfie—is felt to better represent Numan at the top of the article, but I assume a living person would rather not appear in Google's knowledge box looking greener than a Vulcan, in a blue-green haze, and obviously singing/speaking? Yngvadottir (talk) 21:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

The lovechild of Hulk and Nosferatu the Vampyre? I think the current image is better for the lead, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:46, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, tks for the ping, anything was an improvement on the selfie so I picked what seemed the most appropriate from within the article for want of anything better, but the one there now is fine. I think we could even ditch the 'green' one as we have a good-quality black-and-white one in that section (I deemed a colour shot more appropriate for the infobox) but that's another matter... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:24, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I realise I'm not a pro photographer and it shows (oddly enough they don't usually donate theirs), I uploaded a couple from (R)evolution to the commons recently that perhaps are insufficiently good, but at least they aren't green! Would not dare to put them in the article cos the 'Noid Old Guard would probably hate me :) True, some folk out there probably have much better pics. LittleFuzzyYeeks (talk) 15:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I had to kill that green pic sorry, it bothered me, and there appeared to be consensus regarding it, so... If you really hate the purple one I am sure there are more in Wikimedia Commons that would be better than the green. LittleFuzzyYeeks (talk) 06:41, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Inserted better resolution pic, hope it's OK but if better feel free (Very hard to for me to get a pic of GN in focus, not eating his mic etc, and without duckface. But I know zero photographically).LittleFuzzyYeeks (talk) 04:14, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gary Numan/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 21:25, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:25, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Earwig reveals no issues; there are substantial overlaps with a couple of pages but as far as I can tell they take their content from Wikipedia rather than the reverse.

• Some of the sources you cite are not reliable, as they are open for anyone to contribute content:
  • IMDB
  • Discogs is not a reliable source -- same reason.
  • Lyrics.com
• What makes the following reliable sources?
  • loudandquiet.com. Per the about page it was started as a one-man operation and they don't say that ever changed.
  • thevinyldistrict.com. Per this page there seems to be only one contact person for multiple functions, which is usually a sign it's a one-man show.
  • Europopmusic.eu -- seems to be just two guys.
  • electricityclub.co.uk
  • nureference.co.uk
  • fourculture.com
  • sonic-boom.com
  • post-punk.com
  • side-line.com -- and the link is dead
  • atpfestival.com -- and the link is dead
  • magneticmag.com
  • new-reviews.co.uk
  • the stoolpigeon.co.uk
  • concertarchives.org -- for example they say they web-scrape to add data; that doesn't sound very reliable.
• FN 37, Encyclotronic is dead and there's no archive link; do you have an alternative source?
• For this interview, I can't tell if this is an official channel of some kind. Who owns this interview? We can't link to copyright violations, so we need to know if the video owner has some kind of right to this.

I've looked at the sources down to FN 100; I'm going to pause there as there are plenty to respond to already. I think this should probably be a fail, because updating the sourcing for this many footnotes is not a trivial job, but I'll hold off in case you can demonstrate that most of these are in fact reliable. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:11, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

FireWalkWithMe27, are you planning to work on this? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:05, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Failing as there has been no progress. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)