Talk:Garad

Garad article

User:Ragnimo Garad is not only a Somali term as you're trying to make it seem like here by this contribution. Make a draft thats neutral and gain consensus. Magherbin (talk) 17:39, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes its not term only used by Somalis, it was 1 time used by Sultan of Darfur and some by Hararis. Garaad is a term that originates with Somali and the meaning explained by Somalis. Most widely used by them.

And what do you mean by too much POV? What the heck does that mean? All the changes are sourced and you can check the refrences for it. Every change don't need to be dicussed in the Talk, i would discuss it if i removed your edits which i didn't.

And you deliberately left out this line in your first source " but in Somali it means a man who holds high governmental office sometimes parrellel to a prince" and just left it at uncertain.

I was right when i said you hate SOmalis and are an Ethiopian Amhara nationalist trying anything remove and downplay anything that relates to Somalis or mentions of them in connections with Ethiopia. Ragnimo (talk) 17:47, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

It needs to be discussed especially when you show up at pages that I created and add POV, you're continuing to edit in a Somali nationalist point of view regarding ancient states and people that had nothing to do with modern Somalia state. Garad term applies to various Muslims in the Horn not just Somalis as Richard Caulk explained its also an "old Harari term". The introduction was neutral until you arrived and mentioned an obscure Somali clan (dhulbahante) that probably nobody even knows outside of Somali circles. I'm well aware the Darod clans use this title more frequently than the other Somali clans, this is irrelevant to the average reader. If you have sources for this it belongs in the body and not in the introduction. Garad is not proven to be of Somali origin either, again baseless claims. I do not have time to respond to your blatantly false accusations. Create a draft thats neutrally worded and post it on the talk page or i'll make one myself. Lets start with the introduction draft before discussing the other sections. Magherbin (talk) 19:48, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Where was there any mentions of Modern state Somalia. Somali is an ethnictiy, culture and language. There is no nationalism . All significant viewpoints should be mentioned on the page as WP:VALID. I didn't remove the information about how other states and groups use the term that you added onto the page, all i did was include sourced information on it's usage by Somalis, the history of it and the meaning it has in Somali.

What belongs in the lead is the mainstream POV, . That it is widely used and common among Dhulbahante, and other Darood clans. That it is also interchangeably with Sultan and "Ugaas". All of this is sourced.

WP:CREATELEAD

All significant POV must be documented, and all types of reliable sources (RS), including biased ones, should be used. The mainstream view should get the most weight, so the due weight of the article should read in favor of the mainstream view.

Garaad/Garadaa is actually a loan word into the Harari language from Somali/cushitic languages. You can see it mentioned in this study on Harari vocubulary[3]

"mentioned an obscure Somali clan (dhulbahante) that probably nobody even knows outside of Somali circles."

Obscure? Nobody knows outside the Somali circles? How can you be saying this while editin on Somali wiki pages? What your personal opionion about Dhulbahants matters not. This an ecyclopedia. This also shows how ignorant you are of Somalis, unwilling you are to learn more about them and prejudice to be saying that.

You want a disccusion to stall and halt from adding what you don't want onto the page,. Thats why you didn't even look through the info and sources before you just reverted everything in a heartbeat, it's because you are an Ethopian Amhara nationalist who is a known sockpuppet [4] and dislikes Somalis. Not even a false accusation. You won't even adress why left out a whole sentence that explains the meaning in Somali. You don't care about neutral POV the way harp on about it, though u have an incorrect idea of it. It's just false posturing, you are even claiming sourced information is baseless claims because it doesn't fit your POV.

Ragnimo (talk) 22:00, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

It seems you dont want to collaborate civilly to improve the article just throwing personal attacks. See Wikipedia:No personal attacks. It doesnt belong in the lede as its not important enough for Garad page generally. It may be important if a Garad section is on the Somali people article to notify readers that a sepcific clan uses it more than other. If you're adamant we can include something along the lines, "According to richard its an old Harari title and this term is used mainly by the Dhulbahante Somali clan" for neutrality. Magherbin (talk) 23:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Reread what doesn't constitue to personal attackWP:NPA#WHATIS , nothing i said is a personal attacks. You have an Amhara Ethio-Semetic nationalist POV which you are trying to protect. Thats why all your disruptive edits on Somali related articles are related to Ethiopia, POV around Ethio-Semetic and the sock account "Beteamhara" and the Somali related ones inside Somalia is ignored.

And how else do you explain how you left out "but in Somali it means a man who holds high governmental office sometimes parrellel to a prince" and just left it at uncertain" in the etymology section. from your source in the etymology section. Didn't even bother to complete the sentence.

Then the minute i added this and among other information, you reverted everything immediately while not even looking through it.

So yeah you are not interested in building an encyclopedia. It's clear from what you said above. Having your own Personal POV is no problem unless it negetively affects your edditng. Which it does.

You don't get to decide what is and isn't important to add to the lede. The lead is for mainstream views and it is notable enough to add that who/where it's widepsread in usage and who commonly use it. The lead is an overview.

" The title garaad is most widespread among the Dhulbahante" [5]

"The highest-ranking traditional authorities in northern Somalia are called suldaan (pl. saladiin), garaad (pl. garaado), boqor (pl. boqoro) and ugaas (pl. ugaasyo). In the past, garaad was most widespread among the Dhulbahante and Warsangeli

And i didn't include Habar Awal, RaxanWeyn into the lead who also use it among many other Somali groups, only added it to the body. Because it's not recurrent enough the way it is for Dhulbahante and other Darood clans "Garaad current in most Darood clans other than Ogaden".

To me it's not surpising when Garaad originates in the Sanaag region and then introduced elsewhere as it is said here on page 6

You are also not one to talk about personal attacks when you have accused me or others of nationalism etc. It's makes you look even more disingenous and at best WP:BAIT Ragnimo (talk) 23:46, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

What you label mainstream is your own conclusion, this is the same argument you're using on the Ahmed ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi article as well. Didnt even reply back on the Nur issue I raised on the board as you seem to now understand you were mistaken. Sanaag and other regions only recently became Somali territory, it was originally Harla even the Dhul Somalis attest to this [6] Magherbin (talk) 00:08, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

References