Talk:Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor

Isabella, third wife

While this certainly isn't Isabella's own article, there should probably be more information about her, because she helps to define that area of Frederick's life. Just a few quick facts (which you can actually view at her article):

--Isabella was kept under lock and key.

--Isabella's own brother had to beg Frederick to see Isabella.

--She had four children through Frederick (this is mentioned, but I think all of his children need a little more information in this article).

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.13.13.245 (talk • contribs) 13:44 10 July 2006 (UTC).

Norman

User:2.232.70.45 insists on removing the word "Norman" from the clause, "Frederick inherited German, Norman, and Sicilian blood" ([1], [2], [3]). But Frederick's great-great-grandfather was Tancred of Hauteville, a Norman from Normandy. So clearly he was partly of Norman heritage. In edit summaries the user appears to claim that Sicilian and Norman are the same thing, which is dubious in the context of blood heritage; please provide further explanation. More pertinently, does anyone have access to the source cited for this sentence (Maehl)? Does it support "German, Norman, and Sicilian," as stated in the text? Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 03:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Is the clause in question still there? I couldn't find it. Anyway, pointless discussion: his father was German, and his mother was siculo-norman (her paternal grandmother was North Italian, and her mother was from Northern France). πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 05:09, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

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Lead image

@TiltuM: What is the basis for saying that this image is of Frederick? Srnec (talk) 02:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

It's from Frederick's Porta di Capua. Couldn't find definitive evidence its him, so I replaced it with the Barletta bust. TiltuM (talk) 02:45, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

The new image doesn't seem like an improvement over the old. The background is horrible and the features of the face not well preserved. I propose the coin at right. Srnec (talk) 03:33, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Personality and religion

Frederick's religious unorthodoxy led to speculation that he was an atheist, however this is unlikely.[53]

There is nothing in the referred link (https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06255a.htm) that says Frederick's atheism is unlikely.

Is this an argument against his atheism? "He was not, however, a champion of rationalism, nor had he any sympathy with the mystico-heretical movements of the time"

You do not have to be a champion of rationalism to not believe in God. Most belief and nonbelief is unrationalized. That people rationalize themselves into belief or unbelief is completely detached from reality. For example Rick Gervais became an atheist when she realized his mom tried to hide the truth from him. Gervais was a huge Jesus fan and right then and there it was over. A child may not be able to rationalize non/belief, but knows a lie. Gervais' story is much more universal than the "rationalizing non/believer."

Or this? "It was not the Church of the Middle Ages that he antagonized, but its representatives."

Maybe Frederick wasn't an atheist, but resorting to the stupid "I love Jesus, but hate the church" argument is stupid. And especially writing "unlikely" when we at best don't know. We can't be that afraid of the A word, can we? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.253.73.146 (talk) 20:00, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Spoken languages

@Jacques Grolet:, regarding this edit... I generally agree, especially after checking the reference which says This Frederick (...) was acquainted with the Latin tongue, and with our vernacular, with German and French, Greek and Arabic.

However, that the source is Giovanni Villani, writing in the early 14th century. "French", linked to French language, might be a bit anachronistic. Maybe Old French is more appropriate? Thinking of that, "German" probably has the same problem (Middle High German maybe?). I suppose Latin and Greek refer to the classical languages, and from a cursory look at Arabic#Standardization I assume Arabic was already fixed in a form resembling today’s (but I might well be wrong). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 15:47, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I think it would make sense to put "French" as the displayed language, and "old French" as the link?

Because otherwise we would have to update every Wikipedia page with the specific time period language name, it would be a little difficult and over specific I think, especially because there is no precise difference between those languages Jacques Grolet (talk) 16:25, 9 March 2022 (UTC)