Talk:Football in London

The Wanderers

What about Battersea Wanderers?

They play at the 12th level of English football. I think that's a little deep to include, no? BillyBatty (talk) 12:57, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by 'no' but they won the FA Cup five times, they should be in the most succesful clubs table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.255.126 (talk) 19:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Inclusion/Exclusion

Watford F.C. - EXCLUDED - from Watford's Wikipedia entry: "Watford is a town and district in Hertfordshire, UK, situated 34 km (21 miles) northwest of London and within the bounds of the M25 motorway. The borough lies just to the north of Greater London, but is not part of it" GiantSnowman 21:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Include - The visitlondon and allinlondon websites (both used as references for this article) describe Watford as a London club, a term which appears to apply to all teams within the M25. Grunners 19:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Exclude - Ask any Watford fan whether they are a London club or not. - fchd 03:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

See my comment above, it is far easier if we simply take the area within the M25. And as your comment on Wimbledon below rightly shows, what a club's fans may think is not always the neutral truth! Grunners 20:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Exclude - It doesn't matter what visitlondon or the allinlondon websites show, Watford is NOT in London, and therefore should not appear here. The M25 is immaterial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.87.105 (talk) 18:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Unsure - I see this is an old debate! A reason for including it would be that it is both within the M25 and within the built-up area of London (i.e. there is no countryside between London and Watford), and London Underground does go to Watford; a reason for excluding it would be that it is administratively outside of Greater London (although administrative boundaries don't always reflect reality/mentality). Best thing would be to see what Watford fans consider themselves as, as fchd says. I think most don't like to consider themselves as London (see this forum) but some London newspapers do put them in bold in the league table along with other London clubs - go figure! as one fan on the forum says - they "have the best of both worlds". I think it could be mentioned somewhere in the article that "Watford FC is sometimes considered by the media as a London club because of its proximity to the capital, but many if not most of the club's fans do not share this view [cite above forum]", or something along these lines. Any thoughts? BigSteve (talk) 12:47, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Organisation

Should the table of clubs be organised alphabetically or chronologically (date of foundation)? GiantSnowman 16:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd say alphabetically is always best, as everyone can then find the team they want easily. Alphabetical within the leagues they are in, or just plain alphabetical though? Grunners 18:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Alphabetical overall, as it will be save us updating the table when teams are promoted/relegated GiantSnowman 19:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

agreed, already had that problem whilst creating the table from the old style list Grunners 14:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Done. Was unsure about A.F.C. Wimbledon. Any other club with the AFC/FC preceeding the name would ignore the AFC/FC part, but with this club it is such an integral part of the name in order to distinguish it from the older team. At present have put it under 'W' though. Grunners 15:09, 15 February 2007

Thank you, was about to do it myself! I think that AFC Wimbledon should be under 'W', as is considered the descendant of the original Wimbledon side GiantSnowman 16:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

They are NOT considered as the descendant of the original Wimbledon side by most statisticians, or the F.A. or the Football League. - fchd 03:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, to be seen as the continuation, they need the FA to rule that they are the original club's incarnation, as clubs that have disbanded and restarted must do. This will be very unlikely to happen whilst the Dons survive. Grunners 20:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Amount of clubs to include

The table list the clubs down to Step 4 of the National League System. We could go further, but then where do we stop, this seems a natural break as the last of the divisions containing any semi-pro teams (I believe). However, this does mean having to alter the table once a year, but this must be better than having an endless list? Grunners 21:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe only include teams which already have a Wikipedia page, meaning that they have met notability guidelines? GiantSnowman 13:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

In that case, we go at least a 'step' lower, to the Essex League and Kent League. Grunners 14:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you'll find that most, if not all, of the Step 5 teams are semi-professional, as well as an awful lot of the Step 6 clubs. - fchd 17:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

İstanbul has more professional teams than London

http://www.tff.org/default.aspx?pageID=522

you can sort here. there are 22 professional teams from istanbul as of 2008/09 season (in turkey top 4 levels are professional) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kırık.kırkayak (talk • contribs) 22:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

2011-2012

As soon as the season plays out, time to update this page. West Ham may go down (probably), and QPR of course will be in the prem for next season. We’ll finish the rest soon too (AFC Wimbleton, etc) once the play-offs in all the leagues and non-leagues are done. It’ll be fun! BTW, wonder if we should create other pages like this one (for Greater Manchester, West Midlands, etc.). Just a thought. --RobNS 04:11, 9 May 2011 (Urking

Woking

Should we not include Woking F.C., since they share a ground with Hayes & Yeading United F.C., which IS included in the London list. Please advise. --RobNS 20:51, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Be bold, and add them with a note confirming why they are included. GiantSnowman 22:22, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Fairs Cup

As of 1968, the Fairs Cup was based on league position - I think we should include the stats for that later period in this section. BigSteve (talk) 11:26, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Number of professional clubs

This article consistently states that there are 14 professional clubs in London. Although there are indeed 14 league clubs (or 15 if Watford are included, but let's not go there now), aren't Conference club Hayes & Yeading fully-professional as well? -- Skysmurf  (Talk) 14:57, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

London Wiki and football clubs

Persons interested in developing the various football related pages on London Wiki are welcome: the main page is here [1]. Jackiespeel (talk) 21:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Olympic Stadium, future home of the Hammers

I tried to include it on the map. I got the red dot to show, but not the link.

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Interactive map of London football stadia past and present

The article already has two rather similar maps, but I wondered if this interactive map of the football stadia in London might be useful. It can be customised further if there is interest.   Jts1882 | talk  14:24, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Great idea, but what about grounds like Invicta Ground, The Athletic Grounds, Memorial Grounds, Croydon Common Athletic Ground, White City Stadium? Just limiting past stadia to most well known/recent or being comprehensive and including all early ones? TheLostBoy (talk) 15:11, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

These can be added. There are three ways of adding data. It can be added explicitly using parameters in the template (see {{Football map}}) or using a subpages of the module that runs the template. The third way is the simplest and uses Wikidata. All that is needed is to add |stadium99=Invicta Ground and it will work if Wikidata has the information. It might need adding coordinates to Wikidata.

I've added the five stadia you mention to the demo (see {{Football map/demo}} with a different symbol. Four appear using just Wikidata, although only White City gets an image in the popup window. The Athletic Grounds doesn't have coordinates at wikidata:Q16632730 so these need adding either at Wikidata or to the template.   Jts1882 | talk  16:10, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

P.S. For a more extensive stadium map see the one in List of football stadiums in England   Jts1882 | talk 

Other minor trophies

What are opinions on adding Full Members' Cup and Football League Centenary Trophy wins to the totals? Crowsus (talk) 09:55, 6 December 2020 (UTC)