Talk:Failure (Breaking Benjamin song)

Genre

In response to Kokoro20's last edit: Then we shall do for this article what we do for "Angels Fall". First of all, the song, nor any other songs, nor the band itself, has ever been described as "hard rock" (and if so not by any significant/meaningful measure worthy of note). As determined on the Breaking Benjamin article (and the discussion on its talk page), "alternative metal" is a subpar classification, despite it frequently being described as such. The only reliable source close to determining the genre of this song (specifically) is its description as "not a significant departure from" and "stylistically true to" the band's signature content, and such signature content is mostly described as alternative rock and post-grunge (again, as proved on the Breaking Benjamin article and Talk:Breaking Benjamin). But, because we don't have any reliable sources for either, we will default to rock (which is the only genre that can be sourced). Oh and one more comment; Just because something has stood for a while, or something is generally agreed on by editors, doesn't make it infallible nor does it mean we should keep it. We could (hypothetically) all agree that The Beatles are hip-hop, but that doesn't make it true. Jacedc (talk) 19:36, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

After looking around on Google, I found two sources for alt-rock, and no sources for post-grunge, alt-metal, or hard rock. I also just did a general search, and the only other genre mentioned was just "rock". The two alt-rock sources, btw, are this one, and this one, but I don't think we should use them because they both say "alt-rock band Breaking Benjamin has released a new song 'Failure'" (or something of that nature), so they're not really explicitly declaring "Failure" alt-rock, they're just inherently declaring it as such. Jacedc (talk) 19:56, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

The FDRM source actually does say "Failure" "is sure to catch the interest of alternative rock fans". For hard rock, I found this, which says "If you’re a fan of the band’s melodic mainstream hard rock, you’ll be happy to hear they’re back. I looked, but haven't found anything for alternative metal or post-grunge either. After all, why would they say that this song should catch the interest of alternative rock fans, if they are not calling the song alternative rock? And the source for hard rock is also implying that the band hasn't changed their sound from hard rock with this song. I know the sources that are found are not the most explicit, but until (or unless) better sources can be found, these should do. So, how about having the infobox say "Alternative rock, hard rock"? Kokoro20 (talk) 07:04, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, I suppose it's the best we can do for now. There are no better options, so sure. Jacedc (talk) 16:44, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

 Done Jacedc (talk) 18:05, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

I just wanted to clarify that I had not noticed that the article at Alternative Nation was tagged under alternative rock and hard rock when I removed it. My bad. Either way though, do we really need to also cite that when the other sources are already cited anyway? Kokoro20 (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Not if we're going to move the sources to the prose, because then it boils down to the relevance/importance of the source. If it were in the infobox, I'd like to put as many as we can, but otherwise, I think we only need the more important ones. As it stands is fine. Thanks for your help, btw! Jacedc (talk) 19:19, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

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