Talk:FC Barcelona Femení

External links modified

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Real Madrid Femenino which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:22, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Need help to the women's team crest

Hello editors,

Last August 26, I requested permission from wikipedia to use the FC Barcelona crest (File:FC Barcelona (crest).svg) on ​​the page of the women's team as it is allowed in the male page. Permission has been inexplicably denied and I would like to make the following reflections:

1. The women's professional team page should have the same rights as the men's team page. I see no point in debating whether women's information pages can qualify for the same rights as men. I see gender discrimination.

2. There are more than 30 professional teams similar to FC Barcelona that have the club' crest in both the men's and women's teams: Arsenal, Manchester City, Manchester United, Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur, Chelsea, Everton, Leicester City, West Ham United, Aston Villa, Paris Saint-Germain, Olympique Lyonnais, Wolfsburg, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Juventus, Lazio, Fiorentina, Inter Milan, Napoli, Werder Bremen, Eintracht Frankfurt, FC Köln, Bayer Leverkusen, AFC Ajax, Feyenoord, Twente, Sporting CP, Braga, São Paulo FC, Palmeiras, Corinthians, Flamengo, Boca Juniors, River Plate and more.

3. The use of this crest on the FC Barcelona Women's page would not represent a violation of image rights in any case. Barça is an organization that promotes the free expression of content and the promotion of equality between men and women.

Can anyone help reverse this situation and be able to get permission? Vicpumu (talk) 05:39, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Popularity in the 1960s

Hello editors,

The sentence provided in the History section about the popularity of women's football in Spain and especially that of FC Barcelona is supported by a poor and confusing reference. Women's football had no popularity in the 60s in Spain. If no one objects, it will be removed permanently in the next few days. Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 05:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Blow.ofmind78, you have already deleted the following for the second time:

[[Women's football in Spain]], particularly [[Barcelona]], had a certain level of popularity in the 1960s, but was amateur and unofficial.<ref name="Alcalde 20202">{{cite journal |last1=Alcalde |first1=Maria Dolors Ribalta |last2=Martí |first2=Xavier Pujadas |date=January 22, 2020 |title=Women, Football, and Francoism: Lesbians and the Formation of Social Networks through Women's Football in Barcelona, 1970–1979 |url=https://cogentoa.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09523367.2020.1722646 |journal=The International Journal of the History of Sport |volume=37 |issue=1–2 |pages=94–112 |doi=10.1080/09523367.2020.1722646 |s2cid=214040923 |via=cogentoa.tandfonline.com (Atypon)}}</ref>

You did so with the surprising comment "Fake content. Fake source".

This source genuinely exists: doi:10.1080/09523367.2020.1722646. It's on my computer screen right now. For what it says about the girls playing soccer in the 1960s, see page 101. This is actually pretty weak, but the article seems to be a solid source for women's soccer in the early 70s.

When you say "Women's football had no popularity in the 60s in Spain", do you mean that it had none as a participant sport; and if so, what's your source for this? -- Hoary (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

This sentence suggests that women's football in Spain in the 60s was popular or had certain popularity. That is not true (SEE: [1], [2] or [3] all talking about the recent popularity). Nor does it say so in the reference provided. Today it is a popularity but not in the 60s or 70s. Real Madrid for example, created his women's section in 2020.. Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 06:58, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

You present three sources. The first clearly says that it's much more popular now than it was in the 70s. I don't think anyone would dispute this. The NYT article wants me to log in or something, so I didn't look at it. The Guardian article doesn't seem to say anything about the 60s or 70s. When you say that "Real Madrid for example, created his women's section in 2020" I imagine that you're correct and that this shows increased popularity; it doesn't say that soccer lacked a certain popularity among women decades earlier. Meanwhile, here's a paragraph from the reference that you have twice deleted:

The goal was to recruit players for the first four-team women’s football tournament in Catalonia. The event was called the Copa Pernod, and it was held on March 21 and 28, 1971 at the stadiums of Español (Sarriá) and F.C. Barcelona (Camp Nou). The final was played before 30,000 spectators, with the sports newspaper El Mundo Deportivo writing that the players were not very technically trained, but that ‘women’s football is just starting, and for the moment we can’t expect more’.

As for that newspaper article, an endnote specifies:

‘30.000 espectadores presenciaron el triunfo del espa ol sobre el Barcelona’, El Mundo Deportivo, March 29, 1971, 15.

Thirty thou sounds a lot to me. -- Hoary (talk) 08:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

It is important to differentiate popularity from novelty. Being popular means maintaining those 30,000 over a period of time. The novelty made the presence of so many people. If there had always been so many spectators, women's football would have been professionalized earlier. There were no established international competitions either. International women's club/national competitions appear in the 80s! And Copa Pernod as you stated, was not an official-regulated competition. So.. this spectators statistics are precise? Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 09:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Mate, just read the sourcing. And understand WP:V. Within hours of being told not to venture again into article space until you understand sourcing, you're removing content you don't understand while maligning the sourcing. That is a mix of ignorance and arrogance, and doesn't warrant addressing.

But you are also being fallacious. 1. Defining popularity only by consistent attendance figures is not realistic even in the modern day: women's soccer has become massively popular in Australia since the Women's World Cup - but the biggest in-person attendance this year is about 4,000. 2. It's not a 'novelty' when it's also including street football and the general population enjoying it regularly, over the period of a decade or so. Sources indicate a growing presence of women's football in the area over the 50s-60s, especially as a social outlet for lesbians. If you don't bother understanding available sources, and just assume there was one big match done for novelty, you can fall into that trap, but ignorance is not an excuse. 3. Sources also indicate that the city of Barcelona wanted to host the 1972 unofficial Women's World Cup (because of how popular it had become, natch) - by no international fixtures you must be referring to the RFEF, who still don't really like women's football. Indeed, regular newspaper coverage and a semi-pro women's team by 1973, without any official backing, indicates more popularity than if it was officially recognised and thus getting coverage as a matter of course.

Kingsif (talk) 11:40, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

First of all, it's surreal that you're instructing another user to put notices on my Talk page. That is indeed arrogant. Secondly, thinking and making people believe that women's football had popularity or some popularity in the 60s/70s in Spain is a very profound ignorance. The articles are not yours, even though you sometimes think so. Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 18:25, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

To think that I am committing acts of vandalism to reverse 1 time is also being arrogant and manipulative. Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 18:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Kingsif, Hoary, Drmies: Spain in the 60s-70s was in full dictatorship. Francisco Franco died in 1975 and during this period women's sport was not appreciated at all, it was constantly ridiculed as can be seen in the following reliable articles: [4] [5]. Once we have seen and read these articles, can we continue saying that women's football was popular at that time? It's ridiculous to mantain this sentence in the article.

1. Hockey, tennis, basketball or handball were recommended; but not football, a contact sport, virile, which entailed strength, agility, resistance, as well as the danger of masculinization.

2. There were, however, two meetings between women that everyone talked about in 1971: those that pitted the Folkloricas against the Finolis. Two games that showed how little women's football was taken seriously in Spain.

3. Unfortunately, in the early 70s, the League was still a man's thing.

4. The Franco era was especially hard, a time in which women were systematically harassed and practicing sports was not even considered anecdotal.

Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 01:27, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

• You have a few lines on something from 1961 on a website, and an article on the topic, but adding that up is not enough to go ahead and remove a citation from a peer-reviewed academic article. Drmies (talk) 01:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

  Drmies In the article states this: 'Women's football in Spain, particularly Barcelona, had a certain level of popularity in the 1960s'. I have demonstrated in the previous edit that this is totally false. You have not contributed anything to refute it. Blow.ofmind78 (talk) 01:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

You are interpreting historical observations and coming to your own conclusion that there was zero popularity. It could also be just as easily interpreted that during an incredibly misogynistic period of history, for the media to even acknowledge women's sport, let alone try to stop women playing sport, then women playing sport must have been popular enough to get their attention.

But the point is, we don't need to do any of that interpretation. Someone who is far more of an expert than you has done research, and that research has been peer reviewed and published in a leading journal for sports.

You clearly have a deeply held belief that since Franco was still around, women just could not touch a football. To the point that you are insulting users providing opposing evidence. When there is already a very strong source saying otherwise, it is indeed arrogant for you to call it "fake" so that you can try to force your personal belief. We should all strive to let Wikipedia content be dictated by the best sources, not what we think we know. Learn how Wikipedia works if you want to stay. Kingsif (talk) 18:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

• @Hoary: Look at that user's talk page - just WP:DONTFEED. You, I, and any person being reasonable knows that "a certain level of popularity" means that it wasn't obscure, but wasn't massive — and that a good source makes this information WP:V, no matter if someone who doesn't read it wants to say they just know that people weren't actually interested (the source even refers to women's football in the decades before, and a minor resurgence in the 1960s as Franco lost influence, but that's obviously too much tenuous detail for this article). Leave a vandalism notice and report if it gets out of hand. Kingsif (talk) 10:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• Blow.ofmind78, I don't know if you understand what Kingsif was saying in their latest comment: they are signaling to other editors that discussing things with you is like feeding a troll, and it's a signal to people like me that maybe a block per WP:CIR is imminent. No one who understand what Wikipedia is and how it works would argue against an article published in The International Journal of the History of Sport, in their Special issue on Sport and Identity in Modern Spain, and if one were to argue that such an article is wrong one would have to come up with much stronger arguments than you. Oh, and no one is being "arrogant and manipulative", but you, on the other hand, are tasking everyone's patience. Drmies (talk) 23:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)