Talk:Embrace (English band Embrace album)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move to Embrace (English album) and Embrace (American album), respectively. Consensus is unanimous that renaming is needed per the guideline WP:NCM. Equally, consensus is clear thet the originally-proposed renaming was unnecessarily complicated. Xoloz (talk) 04:50, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

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• Embrace (2014 album) → Embrace (Embrace (English band) album)
• Embrace (1987 album) → Embrace (Embrace (American band) album)

– Per WP:NCM "Disambiguate albums [...] by artist and not by year unless the [same] artist releases multiple albums with the same name" (emphasis mine). For example Weezer (1994 album), Weezer (2001 album) and Weezer (2008 album). Embrace albums were not released by the same artist, our standard is to further dismbiguate like in Lucero (Lucero entertainer album) and Lucero (Lucero band album) or Bleach (Bleach (American band) album) and Bleach (Bleach (Japanese band) album). © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 15:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. It's a spectacularly bad disambiguation as it is. We should really find a new name for the articles if we are to oppose Embrace (2014 album), because renaming it to something like Embrace (Embrace (English band) album) is god-awful. It's unnecessarily long and has a bracket-in-a-bracket for crying out loud! We stuck with the Embrace (Embrace (English band) album) for a day or two, and it was incredibly annoying. I had to bookmark the page because I really couldn't be bothered typing in that article name anymore. The only way most people are going to be able to find this article is through other articles, which is a bad thing, considering the effort that goes in trying to make Wikipedia an easy-to-use site. Notice that the days in which this particular article got the least page views is when the article was named Embrace (Embrace (English band) album), most of which, in those two days, were mine. Let's try to find another way to disambiguate this, shall we?
  RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 16:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I do think like you, these titles are ridiculous, but as long as we don't have a subguideline discussing this (WP:NCM says nothing about such situations), it is the established standard for self-titled albums that share the same name but are not for the same musician. I think the main difference between a film title would be we don't use directors names (Avatar (Cameron) or Avatar (Cameron film)), and between albums itself, we don't say Madonna (1983 album) and Madonna (1999 album). As long as there is no guide which "rule" use, the standard is this one. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 03:45, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support - this makes it clear that there are two different Embrace bands involved, passes WP:CRITERIA and WP:AT CONSISTENCY; and is more user-friendly since year is never a good way to find albums or songs. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:32, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

It's a good way to find films, television series and, theoretically, books. Why shouldn't it be a good way to find albums? RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 06:06, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Well what's the difference between films with the same name and albums with the same name? Often at least. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:47, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support. – Per established Wikipedia naming conventions for albums, the current titles may confuse readers into thinking that the same artist released both the 1987 and 2014 albums. Most musical releases here are generally disambiguated by artist, except for the case of the same act releasing multiple albums under the same name (i.e. Weezer, as mentioned above). I do understand where Razor's coming from here with the whole brackets issue (and perhaps this could be treated as a special exception if enough users oppose the proposed titles), but for now I'd support sticking to the established naming convention guidelines. Holiday56 (talk) 15:23, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
• Comment if these are not renamed, then the proposed titles should be created as redirects. -- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 00:52, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• Question. The brackets-in-brackets are hideous. So how about Embrace (English album) and Embrace (American album)? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:25, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
• Delete the American band's album. That'll solve the problem. Unreal7 (talk) 20:31, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support Embrace (English album) and Embrace (American album) per BHG. As a second choice, Embrace (alternative rock album) and Embrace (post-hardcore album). Years are indeed poor methods of disambiguation, but the proposed titles are quite unwieldy and thus highly unlikely search terms, so I oppose the move as proposed. --BDD (talk) 23:34, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support Embrace (English album) and Embrace (American album). This is a much better disambiguation method that the bracket-in-bracket type-a-thon. RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 02:53, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reply

User:BrownHairedGirl, User:BDD User:RazorEyeEdits, User:Xoloz unfortunately the reason (English album) won't work is the reader will either think

(a) that there is a band called "English", like Soundtrack (Modern English album)

(b) That ブンブンサテライツ Bun Bun Sateraitsu Embrace (Boom Boom Satellites album) was released in Japanese-language and English-language versions

(c) that the record company released different versions in England and Scotland.

(d) and so on...

....so it needs to be Embrace (English band album).

As for Embrace (American album) several Embrace (disambiguation) albums are mentioned in other American artist's articles on en.wpIn ictu oculi (talk) 23:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

"English band album" suggests a "band album" which is English... I suppose as opposed to a solo artist's album? But if "English" causes confusion because of its linguistic meaning, as in your example (b), your proposal isn't really an improvement. What did you think of my proposal to disambiguate by genre? --BDD (talk) 23:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

If anyone wants to have another bite at this, I wouldn't object to adding the word "band". But nor will I support it; I think that despite the concerns above, the current titles work well enough. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:19, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Embrace (American band album) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:15, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

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