Talk:Elle (Spanish pronoun)

Requested move 22 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Vpab15 (talk) 15:06, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

---

Elle (pronoun) → Elle (Spanish pronoun) – Normally I'd just WP:BOLDly move this, but since there's just been an AfD I thought it was better to do a formal WP:RM. Elle is the third-person feminine singular pronoun in French, so the title is potentially misleading as it stands. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 00:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Go ahead, speedy. It's very misleading at the moment. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 17:11, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support Obvious improvement is obvious. XOR'easter (talk) 17:57, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose as unnecessary WP:OVERPRECISION. The first sentence makes it clear that the topic is the novel Spanish pronoun. There is no article about any other pronoun Elle on WP, and no evidence anyone is searching for an article about a common French pronoun in an English encyclopedia and getting confused. If it were moved, Elle (pronoun) would just redirect back here anyway. Station1 (talk) 21:05, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
  • WP:OVERPRECISION doesn't imply that ambiguity need be with something else that has an article, just something else that would likely be searched for. And I'm not sure the first sentence argument holds: to use one of the examples from that policy: it wouldn't be sufficiently precise to put an article about Vladimir Horowitz at Horowitz, even if the lead was immediately clear which Horowitz was meant. If moved, I'd propose placing a WP:DAB page at Elle (pronoun), also including a link to French personal pronouns (or possibly French personal pronouns § Subject pronouns), so the redirect back wouldn't be an issue. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 23:41, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
    • Further, I'd add that the spirit if not the letter of WP:SURPRISE holds here: even if we don't have an article on the French pronoun, the fact that this pronoun is novel means that I suspect the French one is what most readers would have in mind for an article with this title. YorkshireLad  ✿  ^(talk) 23:44, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
      • I disagree with the assumption that anyone is searching for the French pronoun, and as I said, there is no evidence for that. We are WP:Not a dictionary, much less a French dictionary. The article on French pronouns has existed since 2004, and we've never seen a need for a redirect from Elle (pronoun) or Elle (French pronoun) or the dab page Elle. Elle doesn't even have an article on French Wikipedia; just two sentences at the top of a dab page followed by a sentence about the Spanish usage. If absolutely necessary, we could just put a hatnote on this article pointing to the French pronouns. But a dab page is at best useless, and will even get in the way of a few people who want this topic. Station1 (talk) 08:21, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support The (pronoun) part makes it seem like Elle is one of the pronouns in Pronoun#English_pronouns. Some1 (talk) 02:00, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:23, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Origin of the pronoun

The article says "the first person to propose it was the British blogger Sophia Gubb", citing a blog entry from 2013. However, the use of -e as a gender-neutral ending had been proposed as early as 1976 ([1]). This should be clarified. 26agcp (talk) 05:13, 15 July 2023 (UTC)