Talk:Elizabeth Maitland, Duchess of Lauderdale/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 18:59, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:59, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

This was in excellent shape when I read through it for the previous GA nomination. Just a couple of minor suggestions:

• Perhaps link Gentleman of the Bedchamber?
• "She developed a reputation for charisma and beauty": suggest "Elizabeth developed ..." since the last woman mentioned is not Elizabeth.

The only real issue from the last review was the spotchecks. I see the issues raised before have been fixed; here are three more. Can you quote the supporting text for these?

• FN 45 cites "Despite that she maintained a brisk correspondence with friends and family, keenly interested in the news from Court."
• FN 29 cites "she was subject to unfounded accusations of having had a liaison with Cromwell".
• FN 15 cites "She was in correspondence[b] with exiled supporters of Charles II and visited Europe on multiple occasions to convey letters to the king."

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:06, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Mike Christie for kindly picking this up again! I've only just seen your notes - for some reason I don't get notified of updates here. Anyhow, I'll get responses to you by tomorrow evening. Thanks. Isaksenk (talk) 07:19, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

No hurry. It looks like the bot did post on your talk page to say the review was started, though; did you not get an alert for that post? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I got the initial bot post, just not a subsequent ping from your review comments. Isaksenk (talk) 18:23, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

That only happens if the reviewer puts the review on hold, which not every reviewer does. I can remember to do it if I'm reviewing one of yours in future, or else I'll just drop a note on your talk page. Mystery solved, anyway. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

LOL, that's kind but really I'm not that precious. I'm just want to be sure to act on any comments swiftly. I think I've responded to the points above, just let me know if more are required, thanks. Isaksenk (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

I've made the two text amendments as suggested. Regarding the spotchecks, here are the supporting references:

FN45: "Her intellect was unimpaired, and she was still avid to be kept in touch with everything that was happening at Court, in Scotland and in politics, writing regularly to old friends and particularly to her daughters for news and gossip."

FN29: "What of Cromwell? He was known to enjoy good company, particularly that of the young. He loved to talk and argue with those holding opinions that differed from his, especially with an adversary who could provide a good dispute. Elizabeth fitted the book perfectly; she was well known for her quick intelligence, knowledge of history and current affairs, general education and her sparkling conversation...It is more believable that this was the basis for Cromwell's enjoyment of her company, rather than anything sexual...It is important to recognise that this supposed liaison was not the topic of gossip or scurrilous lampoons during the Commonwealth, but only began ten years later when Elizabeth was becoming a subject of gossip with the Earl of Lauderdale."

FN15: "Although she must have been continuously pregnant during that period, nevertheless she [Elizabeth] traveled abroad a number of times, with apparently any hindrance from the authorities. She had two ostensible reasons she could put forward for these journeys; firstly, the Murrays had property in Holland and Zeeland, and secondly, in the latter part of the decade to visit a young daughter whom she had left in Paris in the care of a Mrs. Roberts. In 1656, Sir Richard Browne reported 'The Lady Talmage is come to Paris'. Said to be going to Italy, she was back in Paris a month later, supposedly from Chartres, and expecting her husband to join her. It is generally believed that she acted as a courier, carrying letters for Charles when she went abroad." Isaksenk (talk) 18:46, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

These all look good, and I'm going to pass. Excellent article. Will I see this at FAC? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Hooray - thank you! I really appreciate your efforts. Do you think it's got sufficient depth for FA? I've only taken one other article through the process, and it is substantially longer. Isaksenk (talk) 20:38, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

It's long enough. It's over 1,500 words -- we do see articles at FAC under 1,000 words, though personally I treat that as a lower limit. My current article at FAC has under 1,300 words. I can't speak to thoroughness. Do you know any history editors who have featured articles? You might ask for another opinion. Perhaps SusunW could comment? She writes outstanding biographies of women and has FA experience. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your very kind words Mike Christie, I try. Isaksenk, given the time period in which she lived and the lack of scholarship on women in general until after 1970, the article presents a fairly detailed overall retelling of her life, which one would not expect. I don't think the length is an issue. Just make a sweep to see if there are any major sources about her that you haven't consulted and if you are satisfied, as Mike said, I think you should be fine in nominating it. SusunW (talk) 21:07, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

That's really helpful thanks @SusunW and @Mike Christie! I'll work on prepping the article for FAC then. Isaksenk (talk) 08:25, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Isaksenk If you do decide to send it to PR or FAC, please ping me. I'll be happy to review it. SusunW (talk) 13:47, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Isaksenk (talk) 08:59, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Mike Christie and @SusunW Following some additional checks & tweaking, I've submitted for FAC. Wish me luck! Isaksenk (talk) 18:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up; I should be able to look at it in the next two or three days. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Isaksenk (talk) 18:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)