Talk:Dean Collins (dancer)

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His original name was Saul Cohen, according to the California Historical Jazz Dance Foundation. Is there a reference for the other name?

Here is a response from Kiku Loomis (more on her below) and message I recently sent her. Meanwhile, if anyone has access to The New Yorker magazine DVD which has a search feature, they could see if a Saul Cohen or a Solomon Ruddosky is listed as "Dancer of the Year" in 1935, as Dean is supposed to have been.

First, this from Kiku...

I am in contact with dean's niece who claims she has official records. I will search for information on Pete Loggins and would be interested in the results of your research. At this point I do not have time and they are taking down the article anyway in a general site redo.

Regards, Kiku

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Original Message------

From: steve pastor To: kiku Sent: Aug 25, 2006 2:36 PM Subject: Dean Collins aka Saul Cohen aka Soloman Ruddosky?

Dear Kiku: I read your article on Dean In "Dance Spirit" (which I very much enjoyed - little did I know I would come back to it!), and I am hoping you can shed some light on the above. I became interested in this when I saw a poorly written, inaccurate article on West Coast Swing in Wikipedia. All WCS roads seem to lead back to Dean, but I have noted a new version of Dean's early life. A woman who identifies herself as Dean Collin's niece has convinced Sonny Watson that Dean was in fact born in Newark, not Columbus, and was named Soloman Ruddosky. Wikipedia has a record of this change being made on their site by the same woman, who is only identified as Dean's niece. Your account of Dean's early life agrees with that posted on the Savoy Ballroom web site, and most other sites. You mention Peter Loggins, who wrote the article in on the Savoy site. How can this be resolved? Does Dean's widow confirm the Saul Cohen version? Are there change of name forms, or studio supplied biographies? There is no way to contact Peter Loggins through the Savoy site. Could you put me in touch with him? I guess I'm just a get it right nerd for even caring about this. But I would appreciate any effort you make to get this straight. Thanks in advance. Steve Pastor

Dean's name

I must say I was surprised to return to this site and find the correction I made, regarding my uncle's birth name changed once again to Saul Cohen. I was even more surprised to read comments regarding my qualification (she "convinced" Sonny Watson...) to know the facts and edit the Wikipedia entry. Well here are the facts. Dean Collins was my uncle. He was part of our family gatherings; I spent time at his home in Glendale; he was the emcee at my wedding, and he held my children. I know his wife Mary and I was at his funeral. And by the way, my father, Dean's brother, is still alive. Kiku has my email address and Peter Loggins has spoken to me by phone. If you're a "nerd for the truth" search no farther.

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there is less then 5 people alive with any credibility to talk about Dean Collins in any historic context, yet anyone can come on here and update whatever they want to beleive. Thats why avoiding this site is the first thing when doing anything worthy research.

anyways, I pointed the url to the correct website of dean's Bio at www.caljazzdance.com , the savoyballroom server had an old article and still comes up on web searchs which someone linked to...you can also get in contact with me through there if you want other corrections from wikipedia....peter logginsAThotmail.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jassdancer (talk • contribs) 17:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

I just removed the "citation needed" from this article, also. Peter Loggins is the Director of The California Historical Jazz Dance Foundation which serves as home to the Dean Collins archive and collection. Posting only verifiable facts and Watching over something you care about is the only way to insure accuracy here. Steve Pastor 18:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

There are offical on line records re birth and death

Access the California Death Record for Dean Collins born on May 29, 1917 at this url [1] According to this database, which lists its Source as The California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research vital Statistics Section, Dean passed away on Jun 1, 1984 at the age of 67. Birth state is listed as Ohio. The Social Security Death Index lists New Jersey as the place his Social Security card was issued. Taken together, these two records appear to confirm that Dean was born in Ohio, then moved to New Jersey, as was written in previous versions of his early life. The Social Security program was part of the New Deal in the 1930s. Steve Pastor 16:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Let's just leave out the part about him being born in Newark, since the offical records say otherwise. Steve Pastor 16:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The New Yorker Dancer of the Year

I have seen one site that lists Dean as twice having been a Dancer of the Year while he was in New York. I recently heard back from a professional research librarian who searched The New Yorker dvds with all issues of that magazine. He found no reference to Roddowsky. Nor did he find any for Cohen, which, until recently, was listed as Dean's original last name. So, what is the source for these Dancer of the Year reports? I will be contacting Peter Collins again, but does anyone know? Steve Pastor 21:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Here's a new development that may one day find its way into this article. I recently came across a book "Social Dance in America" by Ralph G. Giordano published this year (2007). Page 95 states that Dean was on the cover of The New Yorker when he was 18 and Dancer of the Year. This is a new wrinkle, so I thought I'd check it out.

I went to the library and looked at covers of the New Yorker from 1934, 1935, and 1936. First I noticed that they always use drawings and not photographs. After looking at all covers for these years, no dancers. A librarian sat with me and verified my observations.

So this brand new book has at least one incorrect statement.

We tried again to find any text mentioning Dean as any of the 3 variations of his name. Nothing.

After browsing through the magazine, it made me wonder why the New Yorker would have anything to do with something up and coming like Lindy Hop and the Savoy. Different demographic, I'd say. Peter Collins has not responded to another email request for documentation of this award. Steve Pastor 21:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Why more unsourced material?

Regarding most recent addition to this article.. I know another person who said basically the same thing about Dean and West Coast Swing. So, why put in an unsourced statement, then qualify it? And really, I seem to remember that Orson Wells used a very long tracking shot in one of his films. It turned out that there were wide angle lenses in the 1930s and 1940s, which was a supposed "reason" for the slot? Early pictures had no moveable cameras. They split the atom in the 1940s, you know. I hope you have a source for this statement. Steve Pastor 23:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

1941 Citizen Kane "take the early tracking shot where the camera tracks over the gate of Kane’s mansion and heads off, off into the film itself. It’s a textbook example of how to do a tracking shot, I personally have yet to see a finer example of this method in any other film." Steve Pastor 15:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Phale68993 03:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)"there is less then 5 people alive..." "Posting only verifiable facts and Watching over something you care about is the only way to insure accuracy here. [[User:Steve Pastor|Steve Pastor]" Steve Pastor, Could you please explain to me why you are so set on Dean's biography being incorrect? I am his niece, my dad is his brother and my dad is still alive. I have many items of evidence, none of which are verifiable by you on the internet. Dean has living blood relatives in CA, NJ, and a widow in CA. Once again, why are you resisting my real, live knowledge of this man?Phale68993 03:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Phale68993:What specifically are you referring to? The official on line records, Dean's invovlment with West Coast Swing, the existence of wide angle lens? What? Steve Pastor 17:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Phale68993: Would you like to help make this a better article? It really would be nice to have a picture of Dean. I think many of us would like to see him dancing. You may have something like that. Would you be willing to help with that? Steve Pastor 17:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

whats going on here and why are people debating anything about Dean or his legacy on here of all places? Nobody has contacted me about Dean or the rumors that sorrounded his life of dance. The information on here comparing him to Whitey's Lindy Hoppers is an amature statement. The slot not not evented by Dean ....it was created by Whitey's Lindy Hoppers...

who is Steve Pastor? he has not been to my place to look through the records...I speak to Mary Collins regularly and there simply isnt a mystery about this stuff anymore. email me is ya want anything answered or go to dancehistory.org and we can have a normal discussion over there. Peter Loggins

Peter: If you look through your old emails you will see that you have received messages from me regarding Dean. Tang0man2005... I have also been in touch with Sonny Watson. What is going on here is that wikipedia is supposed to contain verifiable material. Some times it is difficult or impossible to verify certain information. I have changed very little in this article. And the things that I have changed list the sources for the changes. Peter, please help make this a better article. As you know, anyone can put anything in here. I don't want that. Many people come to wikipedia for information. I want to be able to use this as a source of information. Please help. P.S. If you want to see how things can be, check the discussion page of the Elvis Presley article. Oh, and I will check the site you listed. Steve Pastor 18:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I gave up on wikipedia, a long time ago...sorry all. Too many "experts" cutting and pasting our research, changing it to fit their own ego's...we simply can't trust it as verifiable resource, and i'm too busy to edit my own research that has been tampered with by anyone who wishes to write whatever they feel like. Thanks Everyone, Peter

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