Talk:Dario Franchitti

Untitled

I have a few pics that I took at Indy this month, and donated a couple of them to the cause. Let me know if you'd like some more Indy / IRL pics. I also did a little bit of editing. Twohlford 20:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikification

Just needs wikilinks added for F.Vauxhall and a few other series. I'll probably get around to it, just not tonight. Guroadrunner 06:11, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

-

Dario is a true champ for dedicating his 2002 win in Vancouver to Greg Moore.

Abbrevation confusion

I'm not seeing it, much. Enlighten me. --Chr.K. 05:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

MIA, SUR, LBH, NAZ, RIO, GAT, MIL, DET, POR, CLE, TOR, MIC, MDO, ROA, VAN, LAG, FON, ... ??? —Twigboy 03:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't know about any confusion - maybe there's some variation in the abbreviations used across the series. Not sure what Twigboy's question is but those abbreviations above stand for (respectively) Miami, Surfer's Paradise, Long Beach, Nazareth, Rio de Janeiro, Gateway (Illinois), Milwaukee, Detroit, Portland, Cleveland, Toronto, Michigan, Mid-Ohio, Road America, Vancouver, Laguna Seca, Fontana Jsydave 08:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

My question is, how is the reader supposed to know that?—Twigboy 17:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Link them? More code and might get a little messy, but it would enable a reader to click for understanding. I don't think there's room in the table to give full names. 4u1e 11:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Nationality

Franchitti is from Scotland, which is an administrative subdivision of the United Kingdom, in the same way that US States are subdivisions of the US. If you are going to list his nationality as Scotland, then you should list Sam Hornish's nationality as Ohio. --rogerd 23:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The statement that Scotland is a subdivision of the UK in the same way that US states are subdivisions of the US is wrong. Even the official website of the UK PM recognises this, referrring to the UK as a union of countries. Some research before making sweeping statements would be good. Lurker (said · done) 09:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Agree with lurker, your statement makes no sense. Mbr1983 (talk) 20:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Your statement is ill-informed and absurd. I'd insult you but I can't. --Arrows98 (talk) 12:46, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Some research on Wikipedia guidelines before making sweeping statements would be good. While Rogerd's argument that Ohio is analagous to Scotland is incorrect, it is still the case that Franchitti should be listed as British in his infobox. His Scottish residency can be mentioned in the article itself. Chuck (talk) 20:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but having looked into this deeper I must conclude that this rule is inconsistently applied and therefore useless. If this must be applied to all infoboxes, then why is it that snooker players (look at Terry Griffiths/Ronnie O'Sullivan/Dennis Taylor for example are allowed their 'non-sovereign flags'? Same with golfers, examples Colin Montgomerie and Nick Faldo. Either apply this consistently or scrap it. (Good luck with changing all them to British, BTW!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.97.129 (talk) 21:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course it's inconsistently applied. Every rule on Wikipedia is inconsistently applied. That doesn't make the rule useless, it just makes it an ideal to be strived for. Would you likewise argue that since laws against murder have failed to eliminate murder entirely, such laws are useless? And when you say "either apply this consistently or scrap it," whom are you addressing? Chuck (talk) 00:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

No - unlike wikipedia, laws against murder, or against anything for that matter, are not subject to change by anybody. I'm addressing whoever makes these rules - I am going to change the snooker player nationalites to British, I'd bet a pound to a penny someone will revert it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.97.129 (talk) 11:19, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Snooker's governing body regards England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as four different nationalities for the purposes of players' nationalities. The snooker articles on Wikipedia reflect this. Armbrust (talk) 12:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

And the nationalties of these drivers are also given as 'England' or 'Scotland' when they're shown on TV. I ask again, what consistency? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.97.129 (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

"Whoever makes the rules" is us. Me. And you. And tens of thousands of other interested people. If you're legitimately interested in how policies and guidelines are established, see WP:PG#Life_cycle. Armbrust's point is that the governing body of snooker lists England, etc. as player nationalities. ABC Sports or Versus or whatever television network the IRL race is appearing on this week is not the governing body of the IRL. That said, if you want to make the case that WP:MOSICON#Use_of_flags_for_non-sovereign_states_and_nations doesn't make an exception for sports' governing bodies and thus snooker players should be identified by the UK flag, I wouldn't disagree with you, but that's between you and the editors of the articles about snooker players; I don't care enough about those articles to get involved in that debate. (But if that's what you want to do, you might bring it up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker where it appears to have been discussed before, rather than just single-handedly making the change.) Chuck (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Soccer Team

Hearts and Hibs are not is Local Football teams. Edinburgh and Glasgow are about the same distance apart, and even thenLivingston FC, Motherwell FC and Falkirk FC are all closer to whitburn, so its easier and cleaner just to say in supports Celtic. Mbr1983 (talk) 20:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Personal Life

removed bathgate born, as bathgate does not have a hospital, he was born in Bangour Hospital, which is outside of Broxburn.

What does this mean under early career?

In the early career section,this is the opening sentence- While attending Stewart's Melville College in Edinburgh, Franchitti became interested in karting. Allan McNish credited a large part of the start given to himself, Franchitti and David Coulthard as being down to David Leslie senior and junior. I' don't get it, what does Allan McNish credited a large part of the start given to himself, Franchitti and David Coulthard as being down to David Leslie senior and junior mean?--98.87.55.207 (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit warring over initial description

There is an edit war brewing, if not actually underway, over the initial description of Dario Franchitti. He is currently described as:

a Scottish racing driver

and there is an attempt to get this changed to:

a retired Scottish racing driver.

The problem with the latter is that it is an awkward triple intersection of retired, Scottish and racing driver. Instead of trying to squeeze three describers into the one place, break it up into two sentences. Franchitti is either a Scottish racing driver or a retired racing driver. To get the third describer in use either:

a Scottish racing driver who has retired

or:

a retired racing driver from Scotland.

So what is the most important attribute to describe Dario Franchitti? Scottish, racing driver or retired? Fairly obviously it is racing driver as it his efforts at being a racing driver that makes him notable and worthy of a wikipedia article, not his recent retirement or the location of his birth. What is his second most important describer? Being Scottish or having retired from the sport? Or is it something else, like his multiple Indycar titles? Should he be described as:

a Scottish racing driver who has retired

a retired racing driver from Scotland.

or:

a four-time IndyCar series winning racing driver.

--Falcadore (talk) 01:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I should note that in the past I attempted to use "a retired Fooian racing driver" on several articles, and was reverted each time with rather strong language about how one could not retire from being a Fooian. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:55, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Rather than focus on that element, I'm trying to improve the language. The triple intersection actually goes to the essence of "retired Fooian racing driver". Does retired refer to Fooian, racing driver or both? Instead of broaching that argument - make the language clearer by removing the triple intersection then you don't need to touch on retiring from being Fooian. --Falcadore (talk) 02:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

In the phrase "retired Scottish racing driver", there is no ambiguity and no doubt over what "retired" refers to. Obviously, one cannot retire from a nationality, and the phrasing does not imply that you can. To see many, many examples in the English language literature, see [1], [2], [3], etc etc etc for whatever nationality you like. Whoever reverted you with strong language was wrong, Bushranger, just as you are wrong to then propagate this misguided "correction". 200.30.223.19 (talk) 11:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Missing the point, it's not about ambiguity, it's about better writing. You're trying to cram three seperate facts into the shortest possible space. Sometimes it is just better to spread the information out a bit, rather than carry too much information in a very short space - hence the options I presented to you above. Do you have a preference?

You can take these things too far, Scottish-American retired Indycar dark-haired California-based cousin of a Formula One driver, twice removed on his mother's side with pike and a 4 from the East German judge. --Falcadore (talk) 11:55, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

If you have a Scottish racing driver who has retired, "retired Scottish racing driver" is the best way to write that. There is no "cramming" of "too much information". There is just straightforward terse clarity. Writing things in the best way possible is my preference. 200.30.223.19 (talk) 12:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Being Scottish is hardly a defining characteristic is it though? --Falcadore (talk) 12:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

It's no longer clear to me what you don't like about the phrase "retired Scottish racing driver". If you've switched from thinking the reference of "retired" is unclear to thinking that "Scottish" is unnecessary, then I think you're just being awkward for the sake of it. 200.30.223.19 (talk) 13:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

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Personal details

His family are not from Cassino - though that is probably the nearest big town. They're from a little village called Santa Maria Oliveto which is about 40 miles away. The extended family emigrated to the UK at the turn of the 19th century and there are branches in Sheffield, Scotland and Nottinghamshire (Retford). Cheers.SandrinaHatman (talk) 16:33, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

SandrinaHatman - Please provide a reliable source and then by all means, change the info accordingly. As it stands, that is the info I got from a reliable source. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 22:02, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Clear Looking Glass. I'm flagging this up because there's a big issue with the accuracy surrounding the Italian diaspora in the English historical record, including things such as names being anglicised and misspelled. What I'm saying can be cross-checked against primary sources such as b/d/m records. Maybe the journalist misheard during the interview (journalists are fallible) or Dario approximated. I know what is reported is wrong because I'm a Franchitti and he's a cousin a few times removed. There's another eg of this happening here: https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/13983601.the-italian-connection/ It's true that Cassino is the nearest large settlement an English person might have heard of; but it's not literally true they came from there. It's like saying someone is from York when they're from Filey. They're both in Yorkshire but the person doesn't live in York but near York. I suggest a simple fix to make it accurate would therefore be to change to "near Cassino" (or even "from the region of Cassino" or "from Isernia"). I hope this clarifies things and gives you some ideas about how to improve accuracy. I realise the mistake is not yours but the source's, but as you will appreciate this is how mistakes enter the historical record and it becomes harder and harder to unpick them.SandrinaHatman (talk) 09:50, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dario Franchitti/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grungaloo (talk · contribs) 23:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi EnthusiastWorld37, I'm going to pick this review up. It may take me a few days to work through it. I like to make copyedits as I go so so please review any changes I make and revert any you disagree with. grungaloo (talk) 23:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi again EnthusiastWorld37, I'm finished. Let me know once you've gone through and want me to check it over again. grungaloo (talk) 01:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Grungaloo Have made amendments to the articles based on the points below EnthusiastWorld37 (talk) 19:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks good, I fixed a few last issues. Congrats on GA! grungaloo (talk) 22:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Section layout is good, some prose issues. prose is good.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Refs are good, no OR, earwig detects some proper names, no real copyvios.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Good coverage, bordering on overdetailed. good level of detail

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Meets NPOV

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   No edit wars, one IP editor seems really intent on adding some unsourced line about him being an art director on the Gran Turismo movie.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Images look good and have appropriate licenses

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Checked refs 5,12,13,17,19,25,34,36,37,130,135,137 , all good.

• When mentioning races, I don't think both the race and the circuit need to be mentioned and wikilinked (e.g. ARCA Re/Max Series, ARCA 200 at Daytona). Looking at other GAs about drivers (Lewis Hamilton, Mario Andretti), these both pare down those details.
• Similarly, the exact car he drove is mentioned quite a bit (e.g. No. 055 HPD ARx-03b-Honda-LMP2). These are hard to parse and make reading this more difficult. I would suggest removing them for clarity unless there is something unique Franchitti's relationship to the car that's worth mentioning.
• He is the son of Inverness-born Tourist Board employee - Unless you're naming a specific tourist board it doesn't need to be capitalized.
• and he has a sister - sounds odd tacked onto the end, suggest splitting it to it's own sentence.
• When Franchitti was eight years old, the family moved to Whitburn. - Since you just listed all his extended family this can be interpreted to mean all of them moved to Whitburn. I would just say he moved when he was eight, I think the family part is implied.
• He was educated at Edinburgh's fee-paying Stewart's Melville College, - Is fee-paying a common term? Suggest using "private" instead.
• and the teaching of cricket and rugby union to maintain physical fitness. - This doesn't make sense, "and he was taught cricket and rugby union"? Also I don't think the part about fitness is needed.
• and he tested at Knockhill near Dunfermline. - I would add a gloss for tested so it can be broadly understood.
• Later that year, he won the £20,000 Autosport BRDC Award - I would drop the 20k prize since the award is the award itself, it just also come with the money. If you want to keep it, I would list it after "which included..."
• Mercedes-Benz signed him to its junior team just before a deadline in its attempt to recreate its Young Driver Programme - "before a deadline" sounds odd, I would drop it. It's not clear what this deadline was or why it's important.
• Franchitti drove a Mercedes C-Class V6 that was equipped with an anti-lock braking system and traction control - Do the features need to be listed? Other vehicle descriptions have been pretty basic, I would drop the ABS, traction control parts.
• He was 22nd in the Drivers' Championship with 10 points and was third in the Rookie of the Year standings - Because you last mentioned another driver, "He" should be replaced with Franchitti.
• and the first CART win for a Scottish driver since Jim Clark in the 1965 Indianapolis 500 - the source says "champ car", CART didn't exist until 1979.
• but would lose on count-back if he and Montoya finished with the same number of points - It's not very clear what count-back means, could you add a gloss or try rewording?
• Franchitti finished the race tenth and Montoya fourth but Franchitti lost the championship on tiebreak to Montoya, who had won seven races and Franchitti had won three. - same as above, I think this can be clearer how this point scoring worked. Also the last part I would reword to "who had won seven races while Franchitti had only won three".
• as well as changing his personality to being more serious - based on the source, him being more serious is his own thoughts on things that others may not have noticed. I'd avoid using wikivoice and use one of his quotes from the article instead.
• His performance deteriorated due to a lack of testing and a pre-season personnel switch,[57] and he drove an unreliable car he occasionally crashed - What does "pre-season personnel switch" mean here?
• Franchitti sustained an anterior stable compression fracture of the lumbar vertebrae - I would simplify this, "fractured his lumbar vertebrae".
• Franchitti was replaced by Dan Wheldon, Gordon and Bryan Herta in the following three races - Who's Gordon? Give the full name.
• For the rest of the season, Franchitti finished no higher than third at Nazareth Speedway - Were the remaining races all at Nazareth Speedway? If not, this doesn't really make sense and Nazareth Speedway can be dropped.
• Franchitti returned to drive for AGR in the 2005 championship - You've been using "<year> season" for previous years (2004 season, 1998 season, etc), I would not use "championship" here to stay consistent.
• His performance declined after Team Penske and Chip Ganassi Racing (CGR) became more developed when IndyCar used only Honda engines - This doesn't really match the source. It seems to say his performance decline, and independently of that Penske and CGR were able to catch up thanks to the Honda engine. I would take another pass at this sentence to make that clearer.
• For the 2007 season, Franchitti resigned to drive for AGR - Maybe another word that "resigned", could mean quite or signed again. Could say Franchitti again drove for AGR.
• and led a race-high 242 in the SunTrust Indy Challenge at Richmond from pole position - "race-high 242 laps"? Missing a word
• Franchitti won his first IndyCar championship, winning the race after Dixon's car ran out of fuel on the final lap. - The championship is the entire season, but you then say "winning the race". Which race was it that caused him to win the championship?
• After renewed talks with Ganassi, Franchitti replaced David Stremme in the No. 40 Dodge Charger on a multi-year contract from 2008 - A few issues here, I'd start with the year, and also consider splitting it into two sentences. It also could probably be split, first about the replacement contract and upsetting AGR, then about the sponsorship.
• —the Kroger 200 at Martinsville Speedway) - Should be either an em-dash or brackets.
• due to an noncompetitive car owing to his team's not mastering the Car of Tomorrow or beating other major NASCAR teams - This reads awkwardly, we don't know what the Car of Tomorrow is or why it's important, and not beating other teams - isn't this implied by the fact that he didn't do well? I would take another pass, try simplifying, cut out what you can.
• Franchitti's car collided with the rear of Sato's loose car in turn five - Not clear what a loose car is, add a gloss (out of control?) or drop
• Franchitti's car ripped apart a fence section and sent debris into the grandstand past a second fence ahead of spectators before ricocheting back onto the circuit, spinning multiple times before stopping - Some clarity issues, need add "before the car ricocheted back", otherwise it can be read as the fence or the debris ricocheting back.
• Franchitti travelled to Scotland in November for rest and mental clarity - I would drop "mental clarity"
• he and Ganassi devised a plan with a focus on coaching and mentoring of young drivers. - It was just stated that he was a coach, so I'm not sure what this adds that's not implied by being a coach. I would drop it.
• Other racing ventures - Since this section is out of sync with the timeline you just went through, I'd lead with the year in the very first sentence (In 1999, Franchittia planned to enter...)
• Since 2010, he has endorsed the Dutch - New section, say Franchitti instead of "he"
• He appeared on the US television shows Late Show with David Letterman and The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson three times each in the late 2000s and early 2010s - Is this really noteworthy? I'd drop it, too much detail.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.