Talk:Dallara F2 2018

GP3 Engine

As I understand it, to reduce costs, the F2/18 engine is the same engine as currently in GP3, but in order to get the additional power for F2, a turbocharger has been fitted to it. Of course some parts of the engine will need to be changed to ensure the engine works correctly with a turbocharger, but I'm not sure if these changes would stop us being able to call it a turbocharged version of the GP3 engine. Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 07:54, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

@Wikipediaeditperson — first of all, you're going to need a source for that. Secondly, there is a big difference between a GP3 engine with a turbo bolted on and an engine with the same displacement and configuration as the GP3 engine with the turbo integrated into the design from the outset of the design. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:34, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

The source I provided did say it was the same engine as the GP3 engine, but with a turbocharger, so although it has some differences (turbocharger etc.), surely it is based on the GP3 engine? - given that it is the same engine (according to the source). Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

I'd think something more substantial than a Twitter post would be needed, especially since I cannot find anything to verify it. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:06, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

It wasn't the twitter source - it was source 6 from my last edit. Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 21:55, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

WTF1 is a parody site. Or at least it started out that way. Either way, it doesn't really satisfy WP:RELIABLE. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 23:57, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

An Autosport article also states that it shares the design base with the GP3 engine - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129704 Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 21:22, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

I can't read the article—I've already used up my 15 articles for the month—but I find "based on" to be pretty vague. It suggests that there are similarities between the engines, but how extensive are those similarities in terms that are measurable? I would argue that the Ferrari 062 is based on the 061 model, but at the same time, they're completely different; Sauber are using the 061 because the 062's mounting points are totally different and they didn't want to totally redesign their chassis to accomodate the 062. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:48, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

It says it shares the same design base, and with the Sauber, I wasn't aware that was the reason - I was led to believe it was budget, as Ferrari would provide a year old engine for a cheaper price. However, I may be wrong. Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 09:53, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

@Wikipediaeditperson — it was a cost issue. They started development of the C36 early, but then Ferrari went and revised the power unit. Sauber would have needed to completely redesign the back end of the C36 to accomodate the new engine, which they couldn't afford to do.

The point is that I would want something specific before adding these sources. "Based on" is very open to interpretation, and "shares the same design base" isn't much better. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 00:21, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I would assume the issues that were likely to be encountered by Sauber would be changes in power and torque delivery, which may not suit their aero package. However, the actual size and fittings etc. of the engine is unlikley to make much of a difference from one year to another - look at Honda's 2009 car, which became the Brawn, and this changed to an entirely new engine manufacturer, but if I recall correctly, this was able to be solved simply using spacers, not an entire redesign.

The Autosport source does infer that the engine is merely a turbochareged version of the GP3 engine;

It will share a design base with the engine used in the third-tier single-seater series.

But while the F2 version will be turbocharged and produce more power than the normally aspirated GP3 engine, it will not feature the hybrid systems that are used in F1 on cost grounds. Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 12:12, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I would want to see exact specifications of each engine first. "It will share a design base" is very open to interpretation, seeing as how "a" is an indefinite article. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:15, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Do you not think that it is worthwhile mentioning this, even if we repeat 'it will share a design base'? - surely, it is necessary to inform readers that the engine is related in some way to the GP3 engine. Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 21:42, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

@Wikipediaeditperson — it's worth mentioning that they're related, but only if we can define to what extent they are related. Otherwise, it's a vague and empty statement. There's no hurry to include this content, and the car will be unveiled at Monza during the Italian Grand Prix. We'll have plenty more information available in a few weeks. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:14, 8 August 2017 (UTC)