Talk:Dafydd ap Gruffydd

Comments

a phonetic transcription of Welsh names would be very nice to have!

Isn't holocaust a bit of a strong word for the end of the article?

This statement is incorrect and the link is most certainly incorrect:

"Dafydd ap Gruffudd married (sometime after 1265) Elizabeth de Ferrers, daughter of Robert Ferrers, earl of Derby. Elizabeth was the widow of William Marshal."

THE William Marhsal died in 1219 and was married to Isabel de Clare. His son, another William Marshal, was married at the time of his death in 1231 to King John's daughter, Eleanor Plantagenet, who later married Simon Montfort.

Deleted "Elizabeth was the widow of William Marshal" and incorrect link.

• Elizabeth de Ferrers was the widow of William Marshal, 2nd baron, who died sometime shortly before 1265. (Do not confuse with William Marshal who died 1219)

The manor of Folesham, Norfolk came into Dafydd ap Gruffudd's possesion through this marriage and he exchanged it with John Marshal for the manor of Norton, Northampton. (see Littere Wallie 139-140, 142-3). BrynLlywelyn 04:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Is he at all celebrated as a national hero in Wales today? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.94.173 (talk) 06:03, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Dafydd was pronounced DAH-viTH, with the TH sounding like the TH in rather. Gruffudd is pronounced and spelled Griffith. --174.89.26.135 (talk) 20:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Rubbish in this article

No mention of his role in the first Welsh war, also some nonsense about a trap for Lllwellyn the last. It was the battle of Irfon bridge. CJ DUB 14:55, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

If you know this to be true, and have a reference for it, add it to the article. If there is "rubbish," as you call it, in the article, remove it. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 19:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Name

It seems to me that, if DaG's father was named "Gruffudd", and his brother's surname was "ap Gruffudd", then DaG's surname should be listed as "ap Gruffudd" first, with "ap Gruffydd" given as a variant. Sectori (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

If that was the case then all Welshmen in the Middle Ages would be listed under "A" as each used ap or ab followed by their patronymic as their last name. Such a system would not only go against standard literary practice, it would also require renaming every article about any Welshman of that time and it would also be totally ridiculous; a researcher wishing to find out about Llywelyn the Last would need to know the man's father to find him. Welsh lords, princes and kings were invariably known by their first names, in the same way that other monarchs do and thus they should be listed by their first name first James Frankcom (talk) 20:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

"last free Welsh ruler of Wales"

What about Lloyd George? Removed. --Joey Roe 17:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Dafydd's DOB

To explain: Ralph Maud's article is responsible for the notion that Dafydd was born on 11 July 1238 (Maud, Ralph. 'David, the last Prince of Wales : the ten 'lost' months of Welsh history'. Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion (1968), 43-62), based on the assumption that the charter of 11 July 1252 was issued on his fourteenth birthday. It is not a bad bet, but it is hardly proven! Ynyrhesolaf (talk) 19:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Execution

I have come across what may be the actual words of the judge:

he [Dafydd ap Gruffydd] was tried for treason in Shrewsbury and sentenced 'to be drawn to the gallows as a traitor to the king who made him a knight, to be hanged as the murderer of the gentleman taken in the Castle of Hawarden, to have his limbs burnt because he had profaned by assassination the solemnity of Christ's passion, and to have his quarters dispersed through the country because he had in different places compassed the death of his lord the king'.

- Cawthorne, Nigel (2006). "5 Hanging, Drawing and Quartering". Public Executions. London: Capella. p. 100. ISBN 1-84193-417-8.

Not sure if this quote belongs here, or in Hanged, drawn and quartered. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:49, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

'... basely betrayed him'?

AD Carr notes that the two churchmen supposedly implicated in Dafydd's capture protested their innocence (Welsh History Review 19:3 (1999)). The source quoted here is therefore incorrect in that respect. Also, the ref for Dafydd's hiding-place is not given. What is its source, aside from the unscholarly website given in the footnote? If that is the only source, it should surely be removed as OR. Ynyrhesolaf (talk) 23:53, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Six illegitimate daughters

The text mentions them, but not the section concerned with issue. Is their fate known? --NellieBly (talk) 22:17, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

His mother's name?

Sesena or Serena?

Ståle (talk) 08:33, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Selected anniversaries - Main page

Hi, just highlighting that if the yellow tagged issue with the references can be resolved, this article would be eligible for the selected anniversaries October 3, which features on the main page. Whizz40 (talk) 19:45, 11 October 2015 (UTC)