Talk:Crain Communications

Info box listing

I have removed the edits made to the infobox because it was a un-cited list of brands that this company may own. Phearson (talk) 02:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposal to Update History Section

Hi – there are several citations needed in the Crain Communications history section. There are also a few important details about the company’s history that should be included in this article. I have proposed a short history with several sources referenced, which can be viewed in my sandbox User:ChauTime/CrainSandbox. I am an employee of Crain Communications’ Autoweek (also noted on my user page), and I am aware of the conflict of interest guidelines. Because of my conflict of interest, can someone please review the proposed history section I have, and post the changes? Thanks!--ChauTime (talk) 21:16, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your suggestions. Could you please specify what (if anything) is incorrect in the existing "history" section, especially the first paragraph, which has some additional sourced facts I wouldn't necessarily want to delete if they're not wrong?--Arxiloxos (talk) 21:48, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, Arxiloxos. There are a few instances in which the current History section fails to meet Wikipedia’s content policies:

• The first sentence in the History section is somewhat incorrect, because the publication Class went through a few name changes and is no longer titled Industrial Marketing. The cited source does not verify the claim.
• The sentence “Crain is now one of the largest privately-owned business publishers in the U.S.” does not have a reliable source to support this claim.
• The last sentence in the History section is not worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia, as it is not notable (nor verifiable) that Crain Communications began to provide health insurance to employees in the 1950s. This is a fairly standard practice for any company.

The draft I am proposing addresses these issues with the following solutions:

• Adds citations to ensure that all of the information in this section is accurate and verifiable
• Removes the non-notable sentence.

What are your thoughts based on the above? --ChauTime (talk) 20:24, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I agree about the insurance sentence. I note that the "one of the largest privately-owned" claim is found on Crain's own website, and appears to be repeated in many press stories about the company, but perhaps it's worded so vaguely as not to matter.

On the other hand I am not sure why we would want to delete G.D. Crain's prior history with the Louisville Herald, and with regard to Class, I find the fact that it still exists (it's now called BtoB, correct? [1]) worth of keeping, so rather than delete I'd prefer to add a source for that latest name change (even if the source isn't independent, I'd think it's still reliable for a non-controversial fact like that). I don't think we can be sure about using Mrs. Crain's 1996 obit for the ssertion that the company now, in 2012, publishes 27 journals--that's why the current language is worded the way it is. (And I note that the Hoover's source says the number is "about 30"). Finally, if there's a source out there, I'd like to know when (and why) the company moved to Detroit.

In the meantime, I'll go ahead and make some of the other corrections, which are appreciated.--Arxiloxos (talk) 17:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the edits - I've updated my sandbox User:ChauTime/CrainSandbox to include a citation on when/why Crain Communications moved to Detroit. It would be great if we could add this to the History as well. Thanks! --ChauTime (talk) 15:41, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I fixed the reference in your sandbox so it displays the intended press release. I've seen that release before, but it wasn't entirely clear to me if it reflected a move from Chicago or from some earlier location in Detroit. Is there anything out there that can clarify the point? --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Based on the source listed for this statement, it sounds like the Brewery Park was a move from other Detroit locations on Woodbridge and Jefferson Avenue.--ChauTime (talk) 19:29, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it does. But, I note that in August 2000, a MarketWatch article, reporting on Ad Age moving its editorial staff to from Chicago to New York, describes Crain as "Chicago-headquartered".[2] So the 2001 move referenced above might have included the corporate move from Chicago as well as the consolidation of the Detroit operations. It would be nice to clear this up sometime--an important corporate headquarters move to Detroit is worth mentioning. I've also turned up another interesting reference to this topic in the Encyclopedia of Chicago: it describes Crain's history as typical of "important principles of Chicago trade publishing", including the idea that for Crain and other trade publishers, "Chicago alone could not be its sole base of operations". The article points to Crain's "acquisition of Detroit-based Automotive News in 1970" as the event that showed that Crain could not operate solely from Chicago.[3] --Arxiloxos (talk) 20:15, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Arxiloxos, this is a great discussion that you bring up. The Encyclopedia of Chicago source is the only one I have been able to find that hints at the idea that Crain's headquarters moved to Detroit due to the acquisition of Detroit-based Automotive News. However, I am not sure if this is something to include in the History section until we find a more concrete source to support this claim, since the sourced article does not further discuss the corporate move. Thoughts? --ChauTime (talk) 17:20, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, and in any event I don't think that article is trying to make a direct causal connection between the 1970 Automotive News acquisition and the c.2001 HQ move to Detroit. There may be some other way to use that article as a source here, though. --Arxiloxos (talk) 17:59, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Proposing New Section on Crain Communications Publications

{{Request edit}}

Hi - I'm proposing a new section to briefly describe Crain's publications. My proposal for this section can be found in my sandbox User:ChauTime/CrainPublicationsSandbox. As noted on my user page, I am an employee of Crain Communications' Autoweek and I am aware of the conflict of interest guidelines. Because of my conflict of interest, I was hoping someone could review my suggested publications section and post if you think it would benefit the Crain Communications page as a whole. Thanks! --ChauTime (talk) 20:40, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

• I have somewhat mixed feelings about this proposed edit. I appreciate ChauTime's efforts to improve this article as well as xis continued respect for the COI procedures. Some (perhaps all) of the listed publications are undoubtedly notable on their own behalf (and some have their own articles). On the other hand, I am not sure what were the criteria for listing these publications and not others, and some of the proposed language might be taken as slightly promotional and/or puffy, such as "the only weekly newspaper for investors, financial planners, investment advisors, banks, and CPAs." I would like to hear from other interested editors.--Arxiloxos (talk) 19:57, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Can we edit your sandbox, ChauTime? If not, here is some feedback. I would delete as non-notable two of the three that don't have their own articles. The one I would keep is Crain’s New York Business which seems pretty notable to me even though it doesn't presently have an article here. The cites on the two I'd delete are pretty weak: Yellow Pages listing. The one on InvestmentNews (name=AccessMyLibrary> presently numbered 2b) points to a web page about Automotive News. C'mon, ChauTime, don't make us work too hard, this is only our hobby :-) Good luck! Woz2 (talk) 21:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both for the feedback. Feel free to edit my sandbox with your suggestions. --ChauTime (talk) 21:35, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

OK I edited. The version there now is acceptable to me. Woz2 (talk) 22:50, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks so much, Woz2 - I appreciate the help! --ChauTime (talk) 14:42, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit Info Box

Hi all - Would anyone mind updating the Crain Communications info box to include the more notable publications? I'd suggest that Crain's Cleveland Business can be removed and replaced with one or more of the pubs listed in the new "Notable Publications" section. As previously noted, I am an employee of Crain Communications so I prefer to not make the edits myself. I think this edit will help to improve the overall article but if anyone disagrees I'd appreciate the feedback. Thanks! --ChauTime (talk) 16:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Done! Woz2 (talk) 00:20, 5 June 2012 (UTC)