Talk:Craig Owens

"Fluff My Boner" 1

"Fluff My Boner" is not vandalism, please don't delete it Devin320 (talk) 02:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Also Craig was only involved with The Sound of Animals Fighting on Lover, The Lord Has Left Us... and does not appear on Tiger and the Duke (Even though he is included on songs from the album on their DVD, he is not on the original recordings)Devin320 (talk) 02:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC).He also had a overdose of pills

There is rubbish on this page, some of it seems really one sided, obscene and tasteless. someone should fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.4.75.82 (talk) 00:59, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

"Fluff My Boner" (again)

Do NOT add this to related acts. It is a Chiodos T-shirt [1], not a band. --ҚЯĀŽΨÇÉV 13 ^{other crap} 21:45, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

30 November 2009

It is incorrect propaganda that Owen's has admitted to being gay. He is not. This has been taken out.

Shy.Emo.Eyes. (talk) 00:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

lol Lolkthanxbai (talk) 10:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move all. -- tariqabjotu 21:30, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

---

• Craig Owens (entertainer) → Craig Owens (singer)
• John Bohlinger (entertainer) → John Bohlinger (musician)
• Sean Anthony (American Entertainer) → Sean Anthony (rapper)
• Jamie Walters (American entertainer) → Jamie Walters (singer)
• Matt Thompson (entertainer) → Matt Thompson (film director)
• Thomas McCarthy (entertainer) → Thomas McCarthy (actor)
• Teller (entertainer) → Teller (magician)
• Dick Brooks (entertainer) → Dick Brooks (magician)
• Kirsten Price (entertainer) → Kirsten Price (pornographic actress)
• Lizzy Borden (female entertainer) → Lizzy Borden (pornographic actress)
• Aja (entertainer) → Aja (pornographic actress)
• Taylor Hayes (entertainer) → Taylor Hayes (pornographic actress)
• Marcus Collins (entertainer) → Marcus Collins (actor)
• Marcus Phillips (entertainer) → Marcus Phillips (musician)

– previous RM was mainly gathering hip-hop/rappers where "entertainer" is a vanity disambiguator and neologism, not used outside fan sources and en.wp. The dictionary and print use for "entertainer" is legitimate for Category:Vaudeville performers, which extends to some modern drag queens and other WP:BLPs that are genuinely unclassifiable, but these 14 listed BLPs fail WP:CRITERIA as they are not how the individuals are known in WP:reliable sources. (An alternative disambiguator can be seen in Dan Meyer (performer) and Heather MacAllister (performer)) In ictu oculi (talk) 03:03, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• I disgree, many of these individuals various different kinds of entertaining, branching out from acting to music and vice versa. I think the broad term is good. And why would the term "entertainer" only be applicable to vaudeville? Asarelah (talk) 16:13, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Asarelah, because that is how the term is used in English; i.e. the term wikt:entertainers only applies to entertainers. Please see "an entertainer", or please show any one of these BLPs where "the entertainer ___" gets even 5% of the results of "the singer/actor/pornstar ____" Thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 08:32, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

But these people *are* entertainers. If they aren't, then why do we have Category:Entertainers which is a parent category for all of these people? It doesn't make sense. Furthermore, merely because the article doesn't specifically state that they are an entertainer. Teller (entertainer) isn't simply a magician, he's an actor, comedian, and a writer, as the first sentence of his article states. The reason that the word "entertainer" is more appropriate as a title is because actor/comedian/magician/writer would be an absurdly clunky title, whereas the general term of "entertainer" is broad enough to cover it all. An entertainer is simply someone whose job is to entertain (which your own link states), and aren't these people's jobs performing various forms of entertainment? Isn't that what an entertainer is?! By the way, I'm a native English speaker and I don't appreciate you assuming that I'm not merely because I take issue with this move. Asarelah (talk) 20:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Asarelah, I didn't assume you were a non-native English speaker, in fact I assumed you were, that's why I referred to printed sources.

Category:American entertainers mainly functions to collect subcategories. Only articles which are truly "entertainers" in an unclassifiable sense such as James "Grizzly" Adams should not be in subcategories.

Teller is the one exception on this list in having an act that does arguably include a lot of the old elements of vaudeville, or modern variety acts, a bit of comedy and so, on. But nevertheless he's primarily known as a "magician" and (magician) passes WP:CRITERIA and WP:DAB better than (entertainer). See "the magician Teller" 29 GBhits, "the entertainer Teller" 1 GBhit.

The purpose of WP:DAB is not to give singers who've done a couple of movie roles respect for the breadth of their talent, the purpose is to enable readers to locate efficiently BLPs where the name is common to several Craig Owens or John Bohlingers. The best way to do this is to use a dab which best meets as many of WP:CRITERIA's 5 points as possible. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:37, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Why not use the term entertainer when it is applicable if there are no other entertainers who have the same name? That wouldn't interfere with efficently finding articles. Asarelah (talk) 22:05, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

We do use it when applicable - i.e. when printed books use it, as in the example of vaudeville entertainers and song-and-dance-men. Using entertainer does interfere with efficiently finding articles if the person isn't known as "entertainer" 29x more Google book results for "magician Teller" than 1x "entertainer Teller" lead us to expect 29x more people will search for "magician Teller" and recognise "magician Teller". This is a basic principle of WP:CRITERIA and WP:DAB. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:34, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

The Teller (entertainer) wiki article is the first result of a google search for "Teller", and the first result of a google search for "Teller magician". I do not see how you can make the arguement that it interferes with locating the article. Asarelah (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

• Support moves. As noted in previous move requests, this usage of "(entertainer)" as a disambiguator is plain wrong. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 13:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Can you link me to the previous move requests? Asarelah (talk) 20:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Mario (American singer), Talk:Pitbull (rapper). In ictu oculi (talk) 07:33, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: Some of these might need no disambiguator at all per WP:TWODABS (e.g. Taylor Hayes (entertainer))
• Query: Is there a guideline calling for use of "pornographic actress" rather than "actress" as a disambiguator? —  AjaxSmack  03:36, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

(A) User:AjaxSmack, I checked through, should not be, and not in that particular case per Google Books: e.g. Marijke Gijswijt-Hofstra, Roy Porter Cultures of Psychiatry and Mental Health Care in Postwar Britain 1998 Page 301 "The psychiatrists Taylor Hayes and James Warwick in the enormously popular TV soap The Bold and the Beautiful are the moral heroes of the series, and what they peddle are not pills but that good old Freudian product, self-knowledge." fails WP:PRIMARYTOPIC therefore a (disambiguator) is advisable.

(B) No idea, just imitating the common dab in the category at present. That issue best left to that Project. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:48, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

• Support per nom. HandsomeFella (talk) 13:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support per nom. As long as a person is primarily known and notable for one type of activity, we should avoid (entertainer) just because he or she has made forays into other areas. I also endorse AjaxSmack's call for simplification or omission of disambiguators where appropriate. --BDD (talk) 17:34, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Owens' birthday

Would this AbsolutePunk article be enough to cite his birth date? If not, is there any way to find a citable form of the information Google gives when you search "craig owens birthday"? Thanks. Corvoe (speak to me) 15:14, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

No, I'm afraid it's not. :/ WP:BLP sets a very high standard for citing birthdates in biographies: " Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object." That source is questionable, but even if it were impeccable does not give the year of birth and does not constitute wide publication in reliable sources. We can include the year of birth if it is referenced in a reliable source, but it's not referenced there. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:58, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

This is not a usable source, either, for Owens' birthday - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V8PZ-5HB. First, there are 255 people in the US alone named Craig Owens:https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V8PZ-5HB. Even if we could verify that this is the one here, however, WP:DOB is very clear on this:

With identity theft a serious ongoing concern, people increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private. Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object. If the subject complains about the inclusion of the date of birth, or the person is borderline notable, err on the side of caution and simply list the year.

This is one of our key policies, and it cannot be circumvented. The year of birth can be included if there is a verifiable source for it. The date of birth can only be included if it is widely published or if it is published somewhere that makes clear Owens is okay with it. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:57, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:31, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

• Craig Owens (singer) → Craig Owens
• Craig Owens → Craig Owens (disambiguation)

– The singer Craig Owens is by far the primary topic. Last 90 days page views returned 14201 singer, 1253 critic, and only 222 composer. Furthermore, a Google search of "Craig Owens" brings up a front page of results almost entirely about the singer (except a mention to the Doctor Who character). Corvoe (speak to me) 06:16, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Dick Brooks (Entertainer)

Not sure if this is where to post this. Should Dick Brooks (Entertainer) be Dick Brooks (Magician) as in the Teller discussion, as like Teller he wears many "hats" (magician, comedian, writer, administrater, publisher, etc., etc.) but most fall into the magician category?

This kind of problem is new to me. This all has a huge learning curve. Have had a few other very good submissions removed due to lack of experience, etc. I am very knowledgable in this area.

Please do not delete. I am very busy and traveling for the summer and would like the move request (removal), moved to late September when I can clean it up, resolve your issues and put better references, etc. MagicusaMagicusa (talk) 06:38, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Have added some citations, a new heading, awards he received (more to come) New book featuring him to come out Oct 22 by by best selling writer Joe Posnanski. "The Life and Afterlife of Harry Houdini", etc.

MagicusaMagicusa (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:52, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

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