Talk:Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union

Convocation vs. Congress?

There doesn't seem to be a difference between the two and I think "congress" used in the general sense may be easier for westerners to understand. 66.233.137.186 (talk) 05:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Council of Commissars

I put the details of the first Peopls commissars on the Sovnarkom page.Harrypotter (talk) 00:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

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Government of the Soviet Union → Council of Ministers of the USSR — This is the term used in the article's text. Descriptive titles are only used when there isn't a definitive "proper name" for something. Cybercobra (talk) 01:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

• Move and stubify. Current title should be for an article describing the government of the Soviet Union. 81.111.114.131 (talk) 08:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Council of Ministers (Soviet Union)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AIRcorn (talk) 07:44, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay, but this has been a tricky one for me. I only know a little bit about Soviet politics and was looking forward to learning more. You obviously know a lot about the topic, but I got lost several times. While I definitely don't think this should be dumbed down to a schoolboy level, it should be accessible to the majority of readers. I have made some general comments under Criteria and tried to go into more detail under Comments. If you have any questions or disagree with a comment leave a note under it and I will be willing to discuss it. I feel this is going to need a bit of work, but am willing to stick with it for as long as you are. AIRcorn (talk) 11:56, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   I understand this article is on a topic not familiar to many people so some concepts or groups will not be well known. I would suggest allowing a sentence or two to briefly outline what or who each new concept is (even if they can be wikilinked). Maybe the structure of the article could be altered so that the sections describing the Council are before the history section to make it easier to follow. New items are introduced and it can be difficult to work out if they are related to (or the same as) something already mentioned or a completely new topic. For example the All-Union Council of Ministries is mentioned but is it the same as the Council of Ministries or a new Council or a council within the Council. Also some of the wording is vague and could do with some further clarification if important (i.e "several", "within its limits").

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   This is going to take a bit of work from me, so I will come back to this once I get access to the library this weekend.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   This is the big issue for me, but also the hardest to judge. The history section in particular seems far too short. It could use a sentence or two explaining the Council of People's Commissars and its formation before jumping into the Council. The section also consist of facts that do not seem to link that well together and is the major reason for the problems with flow. For example talking about Stalins death before his role as Chairman. I have asked questions in the comments section of issues that I, or someone else, might find unclear to provide a base for expansion. I realise some of these are explained further down, but as most would read from the top down, it might be better to at least provide a short explanation at its first mention.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.: }

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   The source given for the image is the Russian Wikipedia. There must be another source where they got the image from (alas I cannot read Cyrillic, let alone Russian). Fair use rational requires a source so it would be better to link to the source used on the Russian Wiki. It also needs a separate rational as to why it should be allowable for this article.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

lead

• I don't feel tr is a well enough known abbreviation to not cause confusion. I know it is a long bracketed comment already, but I feel it would be better expanded to transliterated.

History

• The Council of People's Commissars, the Soviet Government, was transformed into the Council of Ministers in March 1946 in all level of governance. Ungrammatical. Levels?
• At the same time The People's Commissariats were transformed into Ministries. This sentence could be tied to the previous one much better. As People's Commissariats is not wikilinked it needs to be explained better (presently a wikilink redirects it to Council of People's Commissars, which is not helpful). Also is "The" supposed to be capitalised?
• Joseph Stalin's death sparked a power struggle within the Soviet leadership between the Government apparatus led by Georgy Malenkov as Premier, and the Party apparatus led by Nikita Khrushchev as First Secretary. If Joseph Stalin was the first chairmen of the council (as the table suggest) then that should be mentioned before going straight into his death. The appointment of Malenkov should also be mentioned. Is there a way (wikilink/) to distinguish the Government apparatus from the Party apparatus?
• He was succeeded in his post by Nikolai Bulganin, who in turn was removed and replaced by Khrushchev because of his support for the Anti-Party Group, which had tried to oust Khrushchev in 1957. A lot in this sentence. Who removed Bulganin and how? Where was Khrushchev when the Anti-Party Group tried to oust him? What is the Anti Party Group and why is it relevant?
• Following Khrushchev's removal from power, the collective leadership led by Leonid Brezhnev and Alexei Kosygin held a Central Committee plenum which forbade any single individual to hold the two most powerful posts in the country: First Secretary and Chairman of the Council of Ministers. Why/How was Krushchev removed? How are the Council of Ministers and the collective leadership related to each other? Wikilink Plenum and Central Committee.
• Kosygin, the Chairman of the Council of Ministers, was in charge of economic administration while Brezhnev, the General Secretary, took care of other domestic matters. Whats a General Secretary? Is it the same as First Secretary?
• In the later part of the Brezhnev Era the post of Chairman of the Council of Ministers lost its position as the second-most powerful in the Soviet Union to the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet How did it lose its position? How does the Presidium compare with the collective and the council?
• Nikolai Podgorny's removal as head of state in 1977 had the effect of reducing Kosygin's role in day-to-day management of government activities as Brezhnev strengthened his control over the government apparatus. How was it reduced and how did the loss of Podgorny facilitate this? I assume Podgorny is the Chairmen from the previous sentence, but this is not clear.
• After five-years service, under the rules laid down by Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko Tikhonov was compelled to retire by Mikhail Gorbachev on 27 September 1985. Unlink Leonid Brezhnev and just call him Brezhnev. Who are Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev? It would porbably be worth mentioning the rules seperately. Where there any other ones brought in?
• Ryzhkov was a half-hearted reformer, and was skeptical towards the de-nationalisation and the monetary reform of 1989, however, he did support the creation of a "regulated market" economy. This needs a cite "half-hearted" in particular. It would be good to know more about what some of the other chairmens values, goals, accomplishments, failures etc were when they were chairmen too.
• In 1991 Ryzhkov was succeeded as Premier by Valentin Pavlov Is Premier the same as Chairmen?

Duties, functions and responsibilities

• Formed at a joint meeting of the Soviet of the Union and the Soviet of Nationalities, it consisted of a Chairman, several First Deputies, Deputies, ministers, Chairmen of the state committees and the Chairmen of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Republics. Would either reorder so the chairmen positions were aligned first and the multiple positions follow after "several" (would be even better to give the exact numbers if possible) or break it into two sentences with the last two Chairman's mentioned separately.
• Responsible and accountable to the Supreme Soviet and in the period between convocations of the Supreme Soviet, the Council of Ministers was accountable to the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet and regularly reported to the Supreme Soviet on its work, as well as being tasked with resolving all state administrative duties within the jurisdiction of the USSR to the degree that it did not come under the competence of the Supreme Soviet or the Presidium. Could this sentence be split/rewritten in some way? Supreme Soviet is mentioned three times and accountable twice. It really needs to be simplified.
• Within its limits, the Council of Ministers had responsibility for What is meant by within its limits? Are the details of the limits worth noting?
• All organisations were obliged to follow the decrees and resolutions issued by the All-Union Council of Minister What is the All-Union Council of Ministers. Is it part of the Council, another name for it?
• The competence of the Council of Ministers and its Presidium with respect to their procedures and activities and the council's relationships with subordinate organs were defined in the Soviet constitution by the Law on the Council of Ministers of the USSR Not sure where Presidium is supposed to wikilink to.

Structure and organisation

• The industrial ministries administered the bulk of Soviet industry although on some occasions constructions projects and local consumer good industries were controlled by regional soviets. "occasions constructions projects", should this be construction (singluar)?
• As the Soviet military started to play an increasingly important role in everyday governance, the role of the Ministry of Defense also expanded, with Andrei Grechko, along with Gromyko, being elected full Politburo members in April 1973. What are Politburo members?
• I understand that the role and members of the Presuidum are unclear, but is there a way to simply explain what the Presidium was at the beginning of the subsection?
• According to historian L. G. Churchward, author of Contemporary Soviet Government, the Presidium was established in March 1953 as part of the post-Stalin transition. Is the date of establishment contested? If not it might be better have that seperate from the "according to".
• Throughout its existence, The Presidium of the Council of Ministers was a shadowy institution. Should "The" be capitalised?

TIAYN hasn't edited in a while, so this will probably have to be failed until he returns. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:04, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Half forgot about this one. Thanks for the reminder. Will fail it now. AIRcorn (talk) 03:27, 25 June 2011 (UTC)