Talk:Cougar (MRAP)

Rating

I've rated this as start-class... njan 16:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Nationality?

If it's made by a US company, in what sense is it Canadian?

-- Tom Anderson 2007-03-01 1058 +0000 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.56.123.255 (talk) 10:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

-Only in the sense that Canadians might use it. It was designed in and manufactured in the USA. So, I'm dropping the Canadian part out. Gelston 08:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

"When U.S. forces stormed into Iraq in March 2003, the people at Force Protection had more experience selling boats than military trucks.

The company traces its roots to Sonic Jet Performance, Inc., a California speed boat company founded in 1997. When the boat business hit tough times after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, company officials began looking for a new product, says Madhava Rao Mankal, then Sonic Jet's chief financial officer.

They had just gotten a $25,000 investment from Frank Kavanaugh, a principal with the equity investment firm Ashford Capital, and he'd committed to raise far more. In return, he got a 20% stake in the business.

Around that time, Mankal heard about Garth Barrett, a former Rhodesian military officer who had a company, Technical Solutions, that was building a new type of mine-resistant vehicle.

The heavily armored trucks featured a V-hull design that deflected underbody blasts away from the passenger compartment, and Barrett had seen them save lives in Africa's bush wars. He'd licensed the rights from the South African manufacturer to produce two U.S. models: the Buffalo, a huge, mine-clearing truck, and the Cougar, which was smaller and more versatile.

"Their company was struggling, so we … took it over," Mankal recalls. "The world was in chaos, there was terrorism, and we felt there was a big market for that product."

The takeover came in June 2002 and, not long after, Kavanaugh and Mankal decided to focus exclusively on the V-hulled trucks. They also took a new name, drawn from the address for Technical Solutions' website: www.forceprotection.net. [1] IraqVet225 (talk) 21:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

--So why aren't these being purchased in huge quantities and shipped to Iraq to replace the Humvees?-paladin41k, 04/12/2007

because they cost mucho dinero. So do your F22s, new submarines and aircraft carriers, missile defense shield, replacement of helicopters and transport planes... Daft, 2 may 2007

"Since Force Protection got its first small MRAP contracts in 2004 and 2005, it sometimes has struggled to deliver vehicles on schedule. Operating out of a former General Electric engine plant near Charleston, S.C., the company had only a dozen people on its early production line. It once took five weeks to build one Cougar.

The Defense Department fined Force Protection more than $1.5 million for delivery delays in 2005. The company avoided additional penalties by agreeing to provide spare parts and technicians to help service the vehicles in Iraq. At the time the Pentagon still had not committed to mass purchases of the trucks, but it was impressed enough with the vehicles to spend more than $6 million to help expand manufacturing lines at the company's plant."

"Force Protection's manufacturing workforce has grown to more than 1,000. And last month, the company bought an additional, 430,000-square-foot plant in Roxboro, N.C.

Force Protection also has partnered with defense contracting giant General Dynamics to fill the latest MRAP contracts. In the first quarter of this year, Force Protection delivered 182 Cougars. With the General Dynamics partnership, Aldrich says, Cougar production should hit 200 vehicles a month by year's end, and double that by mid-2008. That output mirrors what bigger competitors promise.

Concerns remain about Force Protection's ability to deliver on time, however. In February, the company won a $67 million military contract to deliver 125 Cougars by the end of June, but the last dozen or so weren't finished until early July. A June report by the Pentagon's inspector general also said the company "did not perform as a responsible contractor" by missing previous contract deadlines.

As the Pentagon has sped up MRAP purchases in recent months, it's placed big orders with several of Force Protection's competitors. Force Protection has won about a third of the new contracts, but the inroads by other manufacturers has been a factor in driving down the company's stock, analysts say." [2] IraqVet225 (talk) 21:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

UK "jumped the queue"

I don't remember exactly where I read this, but apparently the UK received their vehicles at the expense of the Iraqis, as they took delivery of a number of cougars that were originally destined to the new Iraqi army (basicly jumping the queue), leaving them with soft skinned humvees in the meantime. Does anyone have anymore on this matter? Daft, May 10 2007; 16:08

What about the US "jumping the queue"? Or is the UK the enemy now, as well as just about every other country in the world?124.197.15.138 (talk) 06:26, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The above is an asinine statement but typical for talk pages in this so-called encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.32.12.83 (talk) 00:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

The Brits did not jump the queue as stated. The Iraqi vehicle was entirely different to the Brit version - which was in fact merely a slightly stripped-down US 6x6 equivalent. When it arrived in the UK it was fitted out with a large amount of UK equipment and extra armour to bring it up to their requirements. As a gesture, the US did allow diversion of some US-allocated vehicles to the UK. I am the British designer of the Cougar MRAP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.39.149 (talk) 17:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Origins

The article mentiones that the v-shape hull was conceived by the UK, Rhodesia and South Africa. This is simply not so. The V-shape was originally invented by the Rhodesians. Subsequently the South African Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) did a lot of research on the V-hull and several mine resistant vehicles were produduced, including the CASPIR and Buffel vehicles. South Africa produced a great number of these vehicles during the Apartheid era and is still producing improved versions of these vehicles. The American Cougar simply looks like a heavier and more powerful copy of the CASPIR vehicle. The British Mastiff vehicle on the other hand looks like a heavily armoured Buffel vehicle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.128.201.204 (talk) 10:12, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Reread it. It says "an evolution of vehicle mine-protection technology used by the UK, Rhodesian and South African forces from the 1950s." Which is correct - note "used by forces" rather than "invented by". There is a specific link with the British Army in the history of the vehicles that led to the Cougar, as they ordered and used the Tempest, which was a Supacat version of the Cougar's predecessor the TSG Lion, which lacked the fully-protected engine of the Cougar. In turn that built on British use in the Balkans of the Alvis 4, which was a UK version of the Reumech/OMC Mamba. There's various British connections with this stuff - aside from the fact that if you're going back into the 1950's then Rhodesia was still a British colony (and technically it remained so until 1980, UDI notwithstanding) and many of their military/engineers were either British or Anglo-Rhodesian, many of the V hulled vehicles were made by Reumech/OMC whilst under the ownership of Vickers/Alvis/BAE, and the lead engineer on the Cougar was a Brit working in the US. Whilst the first real deployments of V hulls were in southern Africa, it wouldn't surprise me if there had been prototype V hulls produced elsewhere at an earlier date - I think the Finns claim to have had the idea first, even if it didn't go mainstream with them. If anyone wants a reference for the various generations of Mastiff (the article doesn't mention Mastiff 3), see pp68-9 of autumn 2011 DMJ. 86.31.204.118 (talk) 17:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

The design was based in part upon RSA designs of the mid-1990s - but only insofar as it allowed us to be certain about specific aspects of protection levels that could be achieved without extensive further testing. The same went for the armour package which was based upon SSAB steels and took their performance specifications as stated in their tech-spec sheets. Otherwise we could not have designed, developed, produced and delivered (with a logistic support pack) the first vehicle in five and a half months from contract award. That said, it was, in the main, a new design and incorporated a number of important features that resulted in it being regarded as one of the toughest and most dependable vehicles in the Iraq and Afghan campaigns. With regard to the shape of the hull, it was specifially not a classic V-shape. The newer metals and design, including the welding plan, allowed for a much flatter V - which is in any case a much better solution if the threat is not just bottom-attack but also side-blast from roadside IEDs. I can categorically state the above to be the case as I am the British designer of the vehicle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.39.149 (talk) 17:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

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Armament of UK Mastiff

In the Paragraph: Compared to the original Cougar vehicle, the British Forces variant is to be fitted with large, vertical armor plates which cover the large vision blocks and weapon firing ports. This is in line with British Army doctrine concerning the role of the APC/MICV, specifically that it is to carry troops under protection to the objective and give firepower support when they have disembarked. The Mastiff is fitted with a turret sporting either a L7A2 GPMG (General Purpose Machine Gun), L110A1 Light Machine Gun, L11A1 Heavy Machine Gun, L134A1 40mm Grenade Machine Gun, or even a 50mm cannon.[31] One aspect of the British Army's approach to APC/MICV units (which differs to that of the United States) is that ability of the average soldier to fire accurately out the ports of a moving IFV has been questioned. The large armor plates add side protection from RPGs or IED explosions.

The reference to a 50mm cannon is wildly inaccurate! This, I believe, came from a flawed newspaper article that confused "50 cal" as meaning 50mm not 12.5mm. The British army does not even have a "50mm cannon"!

"Top cover" on Mastiff mk.2 and mk.3 was invariably a 40mm GMG or .50 cal HMG 77.97.171.180 (talk) 20:34, 17 July 2015 (UTC)Scorpio_Rocks

Removed mention of 50mm Scorpio Rocks (talk) 13:31, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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Disambiguation

There needs to be a disambiguation with the AVGP Cougar. Amqui (talk) 18:00, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

"Cougar (vehicle" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Cougar (vehicle has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 20 § Cougar (vehicle until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 01:13, 20 January 2024 (UTC)