This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because... Well maybe it should. I am attempting to rename the page as "duke" should be 'Duke'. My first time, but the instructions seemed straight forward. I assume that I made a mistake somewhere. --Gog the Mild (talk) 12:05, 7 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Move as proposed. It appears we have consensus to render "duke" in lower case. The fact that it's being used descriptively rather than as a proper noun means that the capitalization guidelines are relevant. There is no consensus for the other suggested options, or for moving the admiral of the same name; if that move is desired, it can be proposed in its own RM. Cúchullain t/c 19:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Constantine Dalassenos (Duke of Antioch) → Constantine Dalassenos (duke of Antioch) – There is a question over whether or not "duke" should be capitalized as a proper noun or a general translation (specifically: not a title of nobility, but a latinization of the Greek doux). The page was moved three times in 24 hours and I am hoping that centralized discussion can sort this out. Reidgreg (talk) 12:59, 8 May 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 04:01, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
@Gog the Mild, Cplakidas, and Peacemaker67: for your attention.Reply
- @Cplakidas and Peacemaker67: It seems to me that if we are going to translate doux then it becomes a proper noun and should be capitalised. If we are not, we have Constantine Dalassenos (doux of Antioch) which does not seem appropriate. To translate to duke and not consider it a proper noun is going to leave almost every reader (OK, not us three, but very few others) thinking it is a typo. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:11, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- (edit conflict) Well, the reason I had it at "duke" in the first place is because the relevant English literature, when it bothers to translate the title, uses the lowercaps form precisely to distinguish it from the Western title of nobility. It is a job description, not a title, and hence comparable to Constantine Dalassenos (governor of Antioch), Constantine Dalassenos (general), etc.). I don't see why this is in any way or form a problem to have it in the title in lower case, TBH. Constantine ✍ 13:31, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- This is not something I feel strongly about. I agree that you are technically correct, but feel that it would be confusing to the average reader and that a reasonable case can be made for Duke. However, as you were there first I will go with your decision. Sorry to have caused a storm in a tea-cup. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:38, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- I am relaxed about a reversion to duke, based on Constantine's explanation. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:05, 9 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Could the editor who closes this discussion (and performs a move if needed) please also check the talk pages and make sure all the discussion stays with the article? (I'm unsure if you have to merge or transclude, or what's appropriate.) Thanks. – Reidgreg (talk) 10:43, 10 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- Comment. Of course the title should be lower cased. But the larger issue is that "Duke of Antioch" is a terrible disambiguator. I suggest "Byzantine general." Nine Zulu queens (talk) 23:53, 15 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- Support "Byzantine general". Would also suggest moving Constantine Dalassenos (thalassokrator) → Constantine Dalassenos (Byzantine admiral). – Reidgreg (talk) 12:44, 20 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- Support Excellent idea. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:27, 20 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- Oppose because the thalassokrator was not just an admiral; he was also a commander on land. When I wrote the articles, I chose the disambiguation based on their most notable titles exactly because of that. Constantine ✍ 15:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
