Talk:Cher singles discography

Cher had more than 76 Singles

Count them, you know not to count?? today! Singles are 86 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.235.69.30 (talk) 10:23, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Cher's chart success, there's a note in the Sonny & Cher discography (for singles) that one of the hits from one of their albums was released as a solo hit for Sonny, "Laugh at Me", peaking at No. 10. So although Cher has 5 No. 1s (including one with Sonny), I think she has a total of 17 (not 18) Top 10s (12 solo and 5 with Sonny), and 34 Top 40 hits (not 35). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.146.149 (talk) 06:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia MUST NOT CITE "TSORT" for sales information

If you read the cited source carefully, the sales figures being quoted in Wiki discographies and lists are sourced to a claim buried in an avalanche of information compiled by the unofficial site TSORT. TSORT is knowingly misleading its readers by coupling the sales figure with the term "Global", instead of the source. There is no link to the source of these "Global" figures, but several clicks will take you to a page on the TSORT site where the source is revealed:

"Global—The claimed sales for a number of singles as reported in Wikipedia. Such lists are usually inaccurate and this one is certainly incomplete.

Entries under this tag should be treated with some caution and certainly not used to justify definitive statements. As an example quoting one of the "Global" sales figures in a Wikipedia article would be wrong. As described (here) all artists exaggerate their "worldwide sales figures", some worse than others." {"(here)" is a dead link on the TSORT site.}

In other words, by citing TSORT for this information in Wikipedia, we are ultimately citing ourselves. TSORT cites Wiki for the information, and Wiki cites TSORT for the same information. This is no chicken-and-egg mystery, this is deception. Where did we get this information in the first place? Why wouldn't TSORT give the original source of the claims? Presumably because Wikipedia didn't give one in the version cited by TSORT. And if Wikipedia had given a legitimate source, then why don't all the Wikipedia articles cite that same source, instead of the TSORT citation of Wiki? Beyond that, TSORT itself is casting aspersions to the very information we are citing them for here at Wiki, and for the very reason that they acknowledge Wikipedia is inaccurate for including such sources!

TSORT, as an unofficial compiler of non-original research, is tainting their figures by including them in their computations. By including them alongside presumably citable chart figures in their chart information boxes with no qualifier, and by giving misleading information there, TSORT is irresponsibly implying that all these figures have an equal amount of credibility. It is only several pages away that you find TSORT's disclaimer about this particular info.

In light of this fact, Wikipedia MUST NOT CITE TSORT for sales claims. If there is a verifiable and legitimate third-party source for the claim, it would be more informative and direct for a reader/researcher on Wikipedia for a Wiki editor to cite that third party, and not TSORT.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have had a previous exchange of communication with a representative from TSORT with regard to this issue. Understandably it is in this individual's interest to promote that site, and they took issue with my stance. As I said at that time, I personally find the TSORT site to be a creative endeavor and, as someone who enjoys popular music, I recommend it for its entertainment value. However, an understanding of the way they arrive at their own rankings shows that it is highly unscientific in that each entry does not have all the same variables available to the compilers. Given this issue, as a Wikipedia editor, I cannot recommend it for its legitimacy, and will not accept it as a citable source. Do not misinterpret any of this, my affiliation with Wikipedia is not such that I have some "us vs. them" loyalty. This is purely about the accuracy of the information in question, based on the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of the source, which in this instance is indeterminate.

As an editor, I have never had a problem with things like "(Musician X) was one of the most successful artists of the (decade)," or "(Song X) was one of the biggest hits of the year" and other reasonable but unsourced statements I have noticed other sticklers slapping cite tags on, when accurate discography data and common sense support them. But that raw data itself is a completely different thing. A number is either accurate or it is inaccurate. And the disparity between the numbers we're discussing here is in the hundreds of millions. The only purpose a number has is to be compared to other numbers. What can we possibly learn or convey by comparing numbers if we don't know if any of them are accurate? The only thing such numbers gauge is the relative audacity of PR people. Currently Wikipedia and TSORT are complicit in reporting vastly inaccurate numbers, and in so doing we are dulling the impact and indeed aspersing the veracity of any accurate numbers which may have inadvertently found their way to these pages and remained.

If TSORT were to provide live links to the source of the information they use in each instance where that information is noted, and desisted in using information they know is suspect at best and artificially inflated at worst, it could become an indispensable resource as a central clearinghouse of accurate information. (Though as a responsible editor I would ultimately cite the original source.)

TSORT themselves find the data in question dubious, yet they use it anyway. Wikipedia must hold itself to a higher standard than TSORT, even if (or should I say especially when) the information TSORT provides was found by them in a previous, uncited version of a Wikipedia article. Abrazame (talk) 22:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Updates

Hi, Kekkomereq4! I wanted to add some updates, here's prooflinks:

• http://www.bpi.co.uk/certifiedawards/search.aspx

Search "Cher", scroll down to "The Shoop Shoop Song" and then press "More Info >>" button. You'll see that the song was actually certified Gold (the same as with "Living Proof" album).

And if you search "Meat Loaf" you will see Silver sertification for "Dead Ringer for Love" on the second page.

• "One by One" charted number 7 in UK: 1. 2, 3

• And why are you deleted Sonny & Cher discography from "See also" section. I think it's very related since Cher half of the duo. Thanks! --92.37.193.191 (talk) 08:05, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Inaccuracies

guys, this page is extremely inaccurate. just check the other wikipedia article on the single "the music's no good without you" and you'll see that it was far from a us billboard #1 hit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.121.205 (talk) 19:52, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the inaccuracies were the result of wholesale vandalism by an annoymous IP user. I have now reverted all edits made by this user and hopefully sorted out the errors. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 18:57, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

"You haven't seen the last of me" chart update

"You haven't seen the last of me" is already #14 on Billboard's Hot Dance music chart.

Source: http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/dance-club-play-songs?begin=11&order=position

PS: Can anyone create a separate article for this song? It's already been nominated for the Critic's choice Awards as well as for a Golden Globe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.232.188.9 (talk) 21:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

On the Hot 100 Brazil, Cher is currently in fourth. http://www.hot100brasil.com/chtdance.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.27.101.234 (talk) 08:29, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

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Additional single

Will You Love Me Tomorrow (King/Gofin) b/w Reason To Believe (Hardin). Liberty, LYS210, (P) 1972. [Seven single in my possession, may only have been released in South Africa] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.162.26.179 (talk) 10:11, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Gimme Gimme Gimme

I removed the UK chart position of 72 which was from the midweek chart. In the actual official singles chart of 13 Aug the track didn't make the top 100 http://www.officialcharts.com/artist/11931/cher/ Vauxhall1964 (talk) 00:18, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Credits for the Single - Dead Ringer for Love

Cher's Discography article quotes that Cher had a hit with the song Dead Ringer for Love (with Meat Loaf). However, according to the Guinness World Records book British Hit Singles & Albums (Edition 18) and the website https://www.officialcharts.com/ this single is only accredited to Meat Loaf. The Guinness World Records book British Hit Singles & Albums under the heading of Meat Loaf that his song Dead Ringer for Love features Cher as uncredited co-vocalist. She therefore should not be credited with this song as a hit.Proud to be Welsh (talk) 14:30, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

“Walls”

Does anyone have any idea when Walls will finally chart? Cherfan13 (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Woman’s world

When you look at the UK’s chart website and you look for woman’s world, it doesn’t pop up. So how do we know it really peaked at #129? What’s our proof it charted in the UK at all? Cherfan13 (talk) 16:46, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Additional sources for moved singles from promotional singles to main singles section

Below are the singles that were listed as promotional singles that have been moved to the main singles section. These singles were released as commercial 45s, sent to radio, and reviewed by Billboard, Cashbox, and/or Record World magazines. They were legitimate singles which failed to chart. A failure to chart does not downgrade a single to "promotional" status. These singles were reviewed by these publications as showing "chart potential", further indicating that they were indeed singles. Please review the sources below before reverting any changes that you personally disagree with. The constant reverting of this page is verging on edit-warring, or at the very least disruptive editing.

"The First Time"

• Billboard, page 92: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/60s/1969/BB-1969-11-29.pdf
• Record World, page 8: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/60s/69/RW-1969-11-15.pdf

"Superstar"

• Billboard, page 62: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/70s/1970/Billboard%201970-11-07.pdf
• Cashbox, page 22: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/70s/1970/CB-1970-11-07.pdf
• Record World, page 8: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/70/RW-1970-11-07.pdf

"Classified 1A"

• Billboard, page 58: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/70s/1971/Billboard%201971-04-10.pdf
• Record World, page 12: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/71/RW-1971-04-10.pdf

"Don’t Put It on Me"

• 45cat, showing commercial and radio 45s: https://www.45cat.com/record/mu1137

"Will You Love Me Tomorrow"

• Billboard, page 52: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/70s/1971/Billboard%201971-12-04.pdf
• Record World, page 10: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/71/RW-1971-12-04.pdf

"(Just Enough to Keep Me) Hangin’ On"

• Billboard, page 51: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/70s/1971/BB-1971-12-25.pdf
• Cashbox, page 10: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/70s/1972/Cash-Box-1972-01-01.pdf

"Carousel Man"

• Billboard, page 58: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/70s/1974/Billboard%201974-10-19.pdf
• Cashbox, page 23: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/70s/1974/CB-1974-10-19.pdf
• Record World, page 1: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/74/RW-1974-10-19.pdf

"A Woman’s Story"

• Billboard, page 76: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/70s/1974/Billboard%201974-11-23.pdf
• Cashbox, page 22: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/70s/1974/CB-1974-11-30.pdf
• Record World, page 10: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/74/RW-1974-11-30.pdf

"A Love Like Yours"

• Cashbox, page 14: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/70s/1975/CB-1975-02-08.pdf
• Record World, page 14: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/75/RW-1975-02-08.pdf

"Holdin’ Out for Love"

• Cashbox, page 24: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/70s/1979/CB-1979-11-24.pdf
• Record World, page 1: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Record-World/70s/79/RW-1979-11-24.pdf

"Rudy"

• Billboard, page 70: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/80s/1982/BB-1982-05-22.pdf

"Main Man"

• Billboard, page 65: https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Music/Billboard-Index/IDX/1988/1988-soul-Billboard-Page-0159.pdf
• Cashbox, page 12: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Cash-Box/80s/1988/CB-1988-09-17.pdf

"Bang Bang"

• 45cat, showing commercially released 45 single: https://www.45cat.com/record/9278747

"The Star Spangled Banner"

• Billboard, page 17: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Music/Billboard/90s/1999/BB-1999-07-10.pdf

"One of Us"

• Billboard, referred to as “third and final single”: https://www.billboard.com/culture/pride/cher-one-of-us-abba-8476305/

"Happiness Is Just a Thing Called Joe"

• Billboard: referred to as Cher’s new single: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/cher-happiness-is-just-a-thing-called-joe-at-biden-benefit-concert-9472662/

Benjichilders (talk) 19:40, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Purported sale certification on Fernando covered by Cher

@Uncleangelo:
Regarding Special:Diff/1193802109
If I not wrong, that info you had added is incorrect. One of your erroneous edit was reverted Special:Diff/1193804742.
Had search BPI database so far only came with original ABBA song. Thanks. --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 19:18, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Resolved by User:Uncleangelo explaination at Talk:List of best-selling music artists#Purported sale certification on Fernando covered by Cher
(initially Uncleangelo did not cite proper source Special:Diff/1193802681 (wrong https://www.bpi.co.uk/award/14359-885-1, did not put the correct link https://www.bpi.co.uk/award/2261-6604-1 hence reverted by 2 editors me and another editor Special:Diff/1193804742. --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 03:47, 6 January 2024 (UTC)