Talk:Chametz

Better references

If someone can format the refferences better or add Hebrew, go for it. Thanks! Avraham 03:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this article needs expanding. There is much to be said about the removal of chametz, mixtures, edibility, chametz she'avar alav haPesach, matzah, and so on. There is also deep symbolism that should be addressed. The fact that the punishment is karet shows that this mitzvah has fundamental meaning, and in my opinion it deserves better coverage on Wikipedia. There are also plenty of external links that could be added. If only I had more time on my hands... Rafi Neal 04:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

A comment concerning Kosher for Passover dog food would drive home the point of ownership and benefit even more, especially in the context that the meat may be tref but the chametz is still forbidden. Ghaller 16:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Except that no dog food is mainly chametz; in those dog foods which contain grain it's a minor ingredient, so it's merely taarovet chametz, and since it's not food for normal people one is allowed to own and benefit from it. So dog food is not a good example at all. Zsero 23:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

R' Avraham Blumenkratz apparently holds to a different standard. He asserts that many dog and cat foods, as well as foods for other animals such as hamsters, birds and fish, do contain enough chametz as a major ingredient to render such brands as impermissible on Passover. I will add information about cat food into the article, as its the best explained in his text. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 20:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of what R Blumenkrantz wrote. But see SA OC 442:1, and in more detail SA Harav 442:22 Zsero 23:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Adding a Sentence

I added a sentence & it was removed. The sentence was immediately following the sentence of "Mechirah does not fulfill the positive commandment of destruction; it only averts the prohibition of ownership." My sentence was "Some people do not sell real chametz (e.g. bread, cake, etc.)" I put in a footnote on the bottom that sent you to http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-passover-purcpesach.htm which provided detailed information about selling "Real Chametz". If anyone can please help me as to why my sentence was deleted that would be greatly appreciated. Yoilish (talk) 18:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Small Clarification

As a non-Jewish person, I know crap-all about the topic so I'm not going to edit the page, but rather provide a suggestion... I was reading this sentence... "Chametz is a product that is (a) made from one of five types of grains; (b) has been combined with water and left to stand for longer than eighteen minutes without being baked.", and I think it could be clearer - either re-written, or insert an "and" (I assume not an "or") before the (b). Thanks! Trialex (talk) 05:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

five grains products on Pesach

Is this line really correct?

"Although any food of the five grains that has not undergone chimutz is Biblically permissible, by Rabbinic prohibition these grains may be consumed only in the form of matzo."

See Rambam Chametz Umatzah 5:3: ואם הרתיח המים הרבה, ואחר כך השליך לתוכן הקמח--הרי זה מותר, מפני שהוא מתבשל מיד קודם שיחמיץ; וכבר נהגו בשנער ובספרד ובכל המערב, לאסור דבר זה--גזירה, שמא לא ירתיח המים יפה יפה —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.185.130.11 (talk) 18:33, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Oats

Rabbi Abadi permits oat bread on Pesach. Right over here. So who is written this nonsense on Wikipedia? 192.118.11.112 (talk) 18:13, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Who is Rabbi Abadi, and why should naything he says be taken into any consideration?Kepipesiom (talk) 13:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Sold Chametz: "Some Rabbis Encourage"

Someone wrote in the article:

    Some rabbis encourage the non-Jewish owner of
    the chametz to visit the Jewish homes where it
    is stored during the holiday, and make use of
    some of it, to make clear to the sellers that
    the chametz has genuinely been sold to the
    non-Jew.[citation needed]

No source for this bizzarre statement has been provided. In my nearly eighty years I have lived in many communities on three continents, and known many rabbis. I have never heard of any rabbi requiring anything remotely resembling such a thing. Unless someone provides a concrete reference, along with the name of at least one rabbi who requires this (and some proof that he is in fact a rabbi), I am going to remove this nonsense.Kepipesiom (talk) 13:12, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

---

There being no specific citation for this unfounded statement, further discussion, and no objection, I am removing the paragraph.Kepipesiom (talk) 18:26, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

The etymology section was completely wrong. The Hebrew consonant "Tsade" results from the merging of (at least) two proto-Semitic consonants. They are still distinct in Classical Arabic, as "Ṣad" and "Ḍad". It is easy to see that "chamets" corresponds to the Arabic root ḥ-m-ḍ, because the Aramaic version (which appears in the Aramaic parts of the Hagada) is ḥamiʕa (with `Ayin), and almost all Arabic "Ḍads" map to `Ayin in Aramaic. In Hebrew, the root means both "sour" and "leavened" (cf. "chamuts" =sour; "chomets" =vinegar; "chumtza" =acid). In Arabic it is used mostly to denote "sour" or "acidic". In any event, "chamets" is not related to "hummus" or "Homs". "Hummus" is "chimtza" in Modern Hebrew, and in one case, "chometz" in the Bible might be "hummus" rather than vinegar, but the root is historically different, and only accidentally did they assume the same phonetic shape. 79.177.167.209 (talk) 20:11, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Small clarification

In the five grains section that says "Coincidentally, these are also the grains that people with celiac disease or gluten intolerance must avoid.[5]" I wonder if the word "coincidentally" is incorrect. Isn't it the gluten that creates the rise in bread dough? The grains that are able to rise do so because of leaven (chametz) which can only work in dough made with grain that contains gluten. So, it's not coincidental at all that these gluten-containing grains are intolerable to people whose guts cannot tolerate gluten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.103.218.52 (talk) 20:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, not coincidentally. That is the definition of ability to leaven. They just didn't know of gluten at the time. But I'm sure people observed which breads could rise and which could not. 96.251.85.48 (talk) 01:15, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Scientific basis?

Has any research been done on why this rule is there? For example, wet grains during certain times of the year are prone to toxic funal growth. Cleaning out all grains for a period, would probably prevent fungus from propagating year to year??? There is often a basis for historical/religious practices, pigs as disease vector for example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mimarx (talk • contribs) 02:09, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The five grains

This section (The five grains) as it stands is outrageous. Some of the historical and botanical points have validity but this section is in no way reflectant of normative Jewish practice or view of chametz. The current version of the section is built off of this revision and should be restored to the previous revision

Please help fix this. :) --- Naytz (talk) 01:51, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Naytz: I agree with you that the common religiously accepted meaning of chametz should receive deference over contemporary hypotheses about the accuracy of the Talmudic/Rabbinical interpretation. However, in order to restore those points as the main points, I will need some help from you with finding references to what is widely considered chametz. WannaBeEditor (talk) 05:29, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Naytz:Update: As a dedicated Wikipedian I have done most of the work myself, please add references if you can. WannaBeEditor (talk) 06:28, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Eve

The article uses "eve" in a way that most modern non-Jewish readers would understand (referring to the day before), but it is a bit confusing for those who know the that eve (eve = even||evening) of Passover (the half of a 24 hour day that is night time; the time after the sun has set and before it has risen) is the Passover night, and is actually the part of the holiday in which the main ceremony of the holiday occurs. Perhaps replacing "eve" with "the day before" in the appropriate places would be better? — al-Shimoni (talk) 01:39, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

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