Talk:Ceawlin Thynn, 8th Marquess of Bath

Notability

We may not approve of the attention that certain sections of the press give to what may seem to us a relatively minor figure, but bear in mind that it is up to reliable sources, not our own opinions, to determine notability. If three major British newspapers deem Lord Weymouth notable enough to devote articles to (or partly to in the case of the Mail), that establishes notability. —Ashley Y 22:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Independent article

I have raised the issue at WP:BLP/N. —Ashley Y 08:59, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Opinion pieces are permitted by WP:EL, provided they come from a reliable source (such as a major newspaper). Nor does it violate WP:BLP. —Ashley Y 17:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Really? Exactly where in WP:EL does it say that? The only opinion expressed is that subject is not worth a newspaper writing about - surely NPOV would include another opinion that he is - expecially as you are using this as one of the (3-4) sources that he is notable.

The only statement about citing opinion from WP:EL states:

"On articles with multiple points of view, the number of links dedicated to one point of view should not overwhelm the number dedicated to other equal points of view, nor give undue weight to minority views. Add comments to these links informing the reader of their point of view. If one point of view dominates informed opinion, that should be represented first. For more information, see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view—in particular, Wikipedia's guidelines on undue weight."

What it does say:

"Links normally to be avoided... 13. Sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject: the link should be directly related to the subject of the article." (Independent article isn't about him, only mentions he is not notable enough to warrant the Telegraph coverage)

On biographies of living people, it says:

"In biographies of living people, material available solely in questionable sources or sources of dubious value should be handled with caution, and, if derogatory, should not be used at all, either as sources or via external links. External links in biographies of living persons must be of high quality and are judged by a higher standard than for other articles. Do not link to websites that contradict the spirit of WP:BLP or that are not fully compliant with this guideline." (questions about the Independent article's relevance suggests it is of dubious relevance, and is unquestionably derogatory)

From WP:BLP, specifically, on criticism and praise:

"Criticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides;" (clearly the Independent article is critical, and not relevant to the subject's notability - as it addresses his non-notability)

on privacy:

"When writing about a person notable only for one or two events, including every detail can lead to problems, even when the material is well-sourced. In the best case, it can lead to an unencyclopedic article. In the worst case, it can be a serious violation of our policies on neutrality. When in doubt, biographies should be pared back to a version that is completely sourced, neutral, and on-topic." (Seems pretty relevant, apart from the title, the individual is notable only indirectly, and apart from the Independent, only from a couple of sources (one of which is about his being an 'item' in relation to somebody who is notable)

and on newspaper reports

"Wikipedia is not a newspaper. The bare fact that someone has been in the news does not in itself imply that they should be the subject of an encyclopedia entry. Where a person is mentioned by name in a Wikipedia article about a larger subject, but essentially remains a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them." (The Independent article suggests they are a low-profile individual)

The article risks being WP:Coatrack with this material left in for no good reason. The weight of arguments, and the irrelevance of the article itself, suggest it should not be included. Mish (talk) 18:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

prior to moving towards deletion

I have tagged the article for notability, following the discussion on WP:BLP/N - it is not clear that the subject is important enough for a BLP article, and there are no direct sources dealing with him in a way that suggests notability, rather the sources point to him through association or relating to notable incidents which mention him on account of his title, and in the case of the Independent, argues he is not notable enough to warrant inclusion in the Telegraph article. Mish (talk) 10:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

New Content

I've included some suggested additions to the current article content below. These include updated information regarding education, Longleat Hotels and business. I've indicated which sections the content will sit under. If someone could please review the additional content before any edits are made.

Early Life

Ceawlin Thynn attended Horningsham Primary School and Kingdown Comprehensive School in Warminster, Bedales School in Hampshire, and read economics and philosophy at University College London.

Longleat

Longleat Hotels offers accommodation at the Bishopstrow Hotel & Spa and the Homewood Park Hotel & Spa. Located in Warminster, Wiltshire, the Bishopstrow Hotel & Spa is set within Bishopstrow House and surrounded by 18th-century landscaped gardens alongside the River Wylye. The Homewood Park Hotel & Spa is located in Homewood Park, Bath, and set in ten acres of landscaped grounds. Homewood Park is an award-winning, two AA-rosette Georgian country house hotel.

Business

The existing offering includes three units in Vienna comprising a total of nearly 1,000 beds, one unit in Berlin with 350 beds, one unit in Munich with 300 beds and one unit in Budapest with over 400 beds. The company is now preparing to expand into other major European cities, including London, Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, Prague and Rome.

I've gone ahead and added these changes, with just a minor tweak for neutrality in the Longleat section. Ocaasi ^{t | c} 17:51, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks Vjdigital (talk) 10:23, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

For Vjdigital and others: I have moved most of the stuff about Longleat to the main article about Longleat, because it looks out-of-place here, and reads like a long (and not well organized) advertorial for Longleat, rather than a bio of Viscount Weymouth. Have kept the stuff about the charity as it is more relevant, and have added information about his engagement (13 November 2012) and what details I found about the bride and her family (her half-brother is Ceawlin's uncle by marriage). Wikibiohistory (but I've forgotten my password and rarely edit these days) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.68.142.97 (talk) 04:11, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

References

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Birth name

Since he was born in 1974, and his father did not change the spelling of his family name from Thynne to Thynn until 1976 (according to the father's article), presumably he was born Ceawlin Thynne, contrary to what it says in the infobox. The GRO information on FreeBMD seems to support this:

Births Jun 1974   (>99%)
THYNNE	 CEAWLIN HENRY L	 GYARMATHY	 HAMMERSMITH	 12	622S

I could imagine it would be easier to ignore this than to try to explain it, which would be a perfectly acceptable thing as far as I am concerned. I have no doubt Thynn is the correct name now. -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 13:28, 5 April 2020 (UTC)