Talk:Carolina Panthers/GA1
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Reviewer: Shudde (talk · contribs) 06:10, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
I'll try and get the review under-way shortly. Once I start I'll go through and add comments/questions as I read through the article; these won't necessarily be points that need to be addressed for the article to pass, but I'd probably be good to try and address them all—even if just a comment/clarification. Once I've done that I'll try and give a summary, and whether or not I believe the article has met the criteria. I view this process as collaborative so I invite comments and questions from the nominator. - Shudde talk 06:10, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Comments:
First thing, there is only one image other than the logo. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect more on such a topic. A quick search on commons shows a few photos that should be okay are there. Maybe see if there are any images that will improve to the article and add them.- I've added a few more images. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
- Not sure that there is a need for two images of the stadium. How about removing one of those and having one for John Kasay—who apparently has the most points for the team? - Shudde talk 10:13, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've added a few more images. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Team history:
"To help promote the idea of football in the Carolinas, Richardson Sports held three preseason games in Raleigh, North Carolina, Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and Clemson, South Carolina, respectively, from 1989-1991 and formally filed an application in 1991 for the open expansion bid." - this sentence is pretty long, and talks about "Richardson Sports" without introducing it. Also ndash for dates?Maybe a brief (very brief—half sentence) on who Jerry Richardson is, considering his importance to the existence of the team."The Panthers began play in the 1995 NFL season" - 'began play' doesn't make it explicitly clear that this was their inaugural season.I think this second paragraph is a bit long; is there a way it can be split up?- Done. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
"abysmal" - may be WP:AVOID - I think 1 win and 15 losses speaks for itselfmaybe a footnote on what "second-best" isI think you may want a quote rather than saying " hailed as one of the greatest Super Bowls ever." - better to actually quote a respected commentator (also, Peter King should be listed as the author of the http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/02/02/mmqb/ piece ref [13]). Either that or find a couple more independent sources that say the same thing."The Panthers finished 7-9 in 2004, a season where the team lost 14 players for the season due to injury." - a footnote on the average size of the squad/roster may give this fact better context"blown out" might be a bit colloquial"turned the ball over" is there an appropriate wiki-link for this?"throwing 18 interceptions" - in how many matches, again, context is important- Added. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
- Is that a particularly high number? approx. 1.5 per game? - Shudde talk 10:13, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- It depends. Many 'elite' quarterbacks throw under or around 10 or 12 interceptions a season, but Drew Brees, considered one of the best quarterbacks in the league, threw 19 interceptions last season... he also threw 43 touchdowns and over 5,000 yards. Delhomme only threw for eight touchdowns and 2,015 yards. Generally speaking, you had better have a lot of yards and touchdowns if you throw that many picks. Toa Nidhiki05 17:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Is that a particularly high number? approx. 1.5 per game? - Shudde talk 10:13, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- Added. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
"Panthers recorded a league-worst 2-14" - i'm confused, wasn't there mention of a 1-15 season earlier? Is that a league-worst for the season, or ever?" John Fox, whose contract expired after the season, was not retained after the season, as well as his staff." - this reads poorly and consequently is not at all clearMaybe be more explicit regarding why Rivera kept his job, the ref [1] says it was after they started 1-5, but finished 7-9.
Logo and uniforms
"The team name 'Panthers' had been the one the Richardsons had always wanted to give to their football team." - apostrophe? Also doesn't read particularly well" The Panthers organization ultimately decided on white, black, and blue jerseys with white and silver pants" versus "Eventually, the team settled on white, black and blue jerseys to be matched with white and silver pants."[2] - this may be close paraphrasing (probably not though); however I think that you should double check this section as it relies heavily on that one source. Might be worth giving it a bit of a rewrite to avoid any chance of Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing — I'm not an expert on this, and personally think it's ok, but it might be worth your time.
Stadium
"entrances - according " mdashmaybe don't abbreviate PSL" purportedly " implies that maybe the weather wasn't the real reason. Nate Silver's article is pretty speculative, is there another RS to support this?
Culture
Could more be said about Sir Purr and Carolina Topcats - for example the inspiration for the mascot? Could you be more specific about their role-not all readers will be familiar with this aspect of NFL matches.Why was Rosinski fired?- I elaborated a bit on it - basically, the Panthers did not say, but Rosinski believes it is because of a comment he had made in an interview.
What is a "color commentator"?Why is the section "Training camp and practice facility" located where it is, and not in the Stadium section?- I more or less based it off of the Kansas City Chiefs page, which is a good article. Toa Nidhiki05 21:55, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not really a believer that all articles on similar topics should be set-out the same way; especially if only for consistencies sake. It seems like something that should be included in stadium (which is their main "facility", and these training grounds are actually attached to it). If there is a reason to keep it where it is then I can accept that, but keeping it there because article XYZ does seems odd to me. - Shudde talk 10:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- I more or less based it off of the Kansas City Chiefs page, which is a good article. Toa Nidhiki05 21:55, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Rivalries
"230 miles" - conversion to SI would be good; see WP:MOSNUM"In games over the years the Panthers have had defensive tackle Kavika Pittman's career end on a block from Tampa Bay's Kenyatta Walker and the Bucs have had quarterback Chris Simms lose his spleen after being hit simultaneously from both sides by Carolina defensive players.[60] " — this whole sentence reads poorly and is very difficult to understand
Notable players
is "Notable players" an appropriate title when it include the current roster, wouldn't "Players" be better?Pro Bowlers - a sentence introducing this might be good; with a wiki-link if possible.Hall of Honor - how are the inductees chosen?
Ownership and administration
"Jerry Richardson is the owner and founder of the Carolina Panthers" - part-owner?" Richardson paid 206 million dollars for the team in 1993;" inconsistent with earlier in the article, should read "paid $206 million"
lead
Should explicitly say "American football" team—American English is no excuse for omitting this; readers shouldn't be expected to click the link to clarify this- I don't see the real issue with this (the New York Jets, a GA, use the term 'football'), but edited. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
" teams in the NFL to own their own stadium," - "own their stadium"?" with their most recent season (2012) ending with a 7-9 record" just better to say " with their 2012 season ending with a 7-9 record"Might be good to have a sentence in there about rivalries and uniforms (even if just half a sentence on each)
Overall
- There are a couple of other things I think should be included:
Information on team and individual records. Doesn't need to be comprehensive, but at least the most notable records.
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- This should be delisted as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Embedded lists - Shudde talk 10:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
More prose regarding the head coaches in the "Ownership and administration" section; again doesn't need to be much, even if it only discusses the most notable/prolific coaches.
- Other than that pretty happy. I think the article is referenced adequately, and other than those two things above, the broadness criteria is met. Would be good to see more images, and there are obviously a few things with prose, but nothing really bad. Good work on the article; I'll place it on hold. Feel free to ping me on my talk page if you have any questions/comments. I'll try and check back here regularly if you have anything to ask. - Shudde talk 08:23, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
New comments
- This is something that will not influence whether the article passes or not, but it may be a good idea to have a look at WP:DASH—there are many hyphens where ndashes should be. It will make the article much more attractive if the scores all use ndashes (for example "losing 32–29" rather than "losing 32-29"). - Shudde talk 10:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Great. Congratulations, really good work. I've passed the article. - Shudde talk 11:17, 30 April 2013 (UTC)